HL Deb 11 June 1958 vol 209 cc711-3
LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, I beg to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government, how many trees would be destroyed in carrying out the plans for which authority is sought in the Park Lane Improvement Bill.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COLONIAL AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF PERTH)

My Lords, present indications are that not more than ninety-five trees would have to be felled to enable the road improvements to be carried out. About one-third of these are small trees such as thorns. It may be possible to save some of the trees by minor deviations in the line of the roads; this matter is being carefully examined by my right honourable friend the Minister of Works.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, do I understand from that Answer that Her Majesty's Government do not dispute the destruction of amenities described by my right honourable friend the former Minister of Works, Mr. Nigel Birch, in another place on April 30?

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, I am afraid that I do not know what Mr. Nigel Birch said at that time, but I can assure your Lordships that the Ministry of Works are most anxious to preserve amenities wherever possible.

LORD SILKIN

My Lords, does the noble Earl know how many trees will be left standing?

THE EARL OF PERTH

In Hyde Park and Green Park, something over 3,000.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, I beg to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT, or otherwise make available to the House, all reports by the Road Research Laboratory on the traffic problems at Hyde Park Corner and Park Lane, and on the proposals made to deal with them.]

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD MANCROFT)

No, my Lords. My noble and learned friend will recognise that in a scheme such as the Park Lane improvement scheme many considerations have to be taken into account as well as traffic, and the reports to which he refers are only one part of the information on which the L.C.C. and my right honourable friend the Minister eventually drew up the plans now embodied in the Park Lane Improvement Bill. It would not be possible to publish all the voluminous advice that has been tendered to my right honourable friend over the years during which the present scheme has been evolved, and it would be inappropriate to publish only the reports to which the noble Lord refers. I am, incidentally, placing scale models of the scheme in the Royal Gallery tomorrow morning.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, before we allow encroachments on the Royal Parks and the destruction of historic amenities in the heart of the capital ought we not at least to know what the expert traffic advisers believe will be the effect upon traffic? Is it not the fact that the Road Research Laboratory have conducted experiments on this scheme and have reported the results? Is not the I House entitled to know the results?

LORD MANCROFT

My Lords, I think it would not be practicable to give publication to all the multitudinous advice which my right honourable friend receives, and will always receive in a case like this, before he finally makes up his mind and submits his decisions to Parliament.

LORD CONESFORD

Has my noble friend seen the very serious allegations, so far uncontradicted, made in the Observer on April 27 and made by my right honourable friend Mr. Nigel Birch in another place on April 30, and can he assure the House that he will give detailed answers to the criticisms there raised when he commends the Bill on Second Reading?

LORD MANCROFT

My Lords, I will do my best on Second Reading of this Bill to fall in with the wishes of the House. Naturally, those advising the Government did not get their way in every single point on the advice they offered. I can promise my noble and learned friend that I did not get my way on every piece of advice I offered. But the scheme they have agreed was accepted by the Road Research Laboratory, as by my right honourable friend's other advisers, as being the most suitable, taking into account the many conflicting factors.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

Can the noble Lord say when the scheme will be started?

LORD MANCROFT

We have not passed the Bill yet.

EARL ATTLEE

May I ask for an assurance that it is not intended in future to call Hyde Park "Hyde Car Park".

LORD MANCROFT

If the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, will look at the scheme again, as I am sure he has done already, he will see that it provides for a reduction in the number of cars parked in Hyde Park.

LORD CONESFORD

May I thank my noble friend for his answers and for his promise to put on view a model which we can study. I wonder whether he can also arrange for somebody from the Departments concerned to show me and other noble Lords in all quarters who may be interested exactly what is involved on the spot, either on Friday or Saturday of this week.

LORD MANCROFT

What will be involved on the spot is that the noble Lord should take great care not to get run over, because this is one of the most dangerous parts of London. If he cares to take that risk, either in my company or in the company of my professional advisers, we are all most happily at his disposal.

LORD CONESFORD

Thank you very much.