§ 2.38 p.m.
THE EARL OF CORK AND ORRERYMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether any of the four guided-missile destroyers—or light cruisers—mentioned in the Navy Estimates for 1956–57 have yet been laid down, and by what date it is anticipated that all four will have joined the Active Fleet.]
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (THE EARL OF SELKIRK)My Lords, I am afraid cannot at present add to what I said in my explanatory statement on the current year's Navy Estimates. These four ships have been ordered and I expect them to be in service in the early 1960s.
THE EARL OF CORK AND ORRERYMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his Answer to my Question, which I suppose is the official way of saying that he does not know. If I might ask a further question, could he say whether it is the weapons or the ships themselves that are causing this delay?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, I am always willing to help the noble Earl when I can, but I do not necessarily feel obliged to reveal in public everything I know. I do not think the noble Earl should under-estimate the considerable development which these ships represent. They are the first anti-aircraft missile ships to be built. As the noble Earl is fully aware, the weapons have been under trial for some time, and I am glad to say that the trials have been remarkably successful. I do not think one can blame either one side or the other. This is a new development which is bound to take time, and I think it would be foolish to try unduly to expedite it.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether this represents the sum total of new construction for the Royal Navy?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, the noble Earl may be interested to know that we shall this year have received into service six frigates and three submarines, 979 and have on order or under current construction fifty-eight ships of one kind and another.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, the noble Earl has told us a number of things, but he has not answered the simple question: when will these four ships be ready?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, I have endeavoured to explain to the noble Viscount that I am not at present willing to give dates as to when, in fact, they will be ready.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, is the First Lord really seized of the great anxiety felt in many circles in this country, especially those who appreciate the importance of our overseas trade, at the rapid reduction of the numbers of ships in commission and active? Aircraft carriers in commission have been reduced from 8 in 1950 to 3 in 1958; the cruisers in commission and active have been reduced from 14 in 1950 to 3 in 1958. When are we going to have a "Stop" sign set up to finish getting rid of the Royal Navy?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKI fully appreciate the noble Viscount's question, and I think I am seized of what he is endeavouring to say. It lies a little outside the Question on the Paper, and I think he will agree that it would be better dealt with by a general debate on some other occasion. I should be very happy if the noble Viscount would like to put down a Motion. I appreciate what he has said, and I have endeavoured on previous occasions to explain the general plan to which I am working. I do not want to recapitulate that to-day. However, we are under no illusion about the important part that naval power plays to-day, and, in our opinion, will continue to play.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am much obliged for that statement and I am sure that the noble Earl is sincere. But does this mean that there is not agreement on the part of the Government on the fact? Is it the Treasury or the Ministry of Defence which is holding up the proper maintenance of the Royal Navy?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, I do not consider there is any disagree- 980 meat at all. What I have said, I have said on behalf of Her Majesty's Government; and Her Majesty's Government, so far as I know, are fully in agreement with what I have said.