§ 6.0 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, when the House adjourned temporarily I was speaking about British broadcasting, and I had suggested that this institution in London would be one of the first places which would be seized by any Nazi invading force, for the very obvious reasons which I described and need not go over again, it is absolutely essential that the personnel employed, permanently or temporarily, in that institution, having regard to the great importance broadcasting plays in the world to-day, should be without reproach. I want to suggest to His Majesty's Government that they should search through the personnel employed in the British broadcasting station in London, and in any other part of this country, and make sure there is not a single individual there for whom they cannot vouch without any chance of their being let down. There is at least one individual of whom I know in the broadcasting station in London who certainly should not occupy that position. I do not propose to name him here, but I shall hand his name on a piece of paper to my noble friend who will reply to this debate. But I shall say just this one thing about 418 him, that he is married to a German lady whose brother is fighting against us. I ask the Government to look into that matter very seriously indeed.
My next question is, what steps are being taken about the refugees who are streaming over now from Holland and Belgium and in a lesser degree from Norway? It is within such recent knowledge that it is quite unnecessary to dilate upon the fact that those three countries were practically handed over to the Germans through the traitors within their midst. What easier thing is there than for the Germans to include their nationals in the guise of these different subjects and send them over here to add to the Fifth Column Army which is already growing up in this country? I ask the Government what steps they are taking to ensure that these Quislings shall not do similar nefarious acts in this country. I want further to ask His Majesty's Government what steps they are taking in regard to these people. Are they setting up a committee to look after them or what are they doing? I understand these people are being billeted out all over the country and that there is no proper supervision of them at all. If this country were invaded, and it is not at all unlikely, you will have absolutely no guarantee that many of these people will not turn round and assist the invader. I want further to suggest to His Majesty's Government that they might invite the United States of America, who are now thoroughly aroused to the situation in Europe, to say whether they could see their way to help us in the difficulties in which we are in this country over these refugees by taking some or a great many of them off our hands.
I apologise to the House for being so lengthy, but I feel that this is a subject of such immense importance at the present time that your Lordships will bear with me even if I have to go on for five or ten minutes longer. Lastly, I come to a set of people in this country, most of whom are of British birth, who, by their speeches and insidious whisperings and newspaper writings are doing an infinite amount of harm and throwing grit into our war machine all the time. They cannot escape criticism in a debate of this kind and at such a serious time. I refer particularly to the British-born Fascists, to the British-born Communists and to the so-called Peace-Pledgers.
419 The first body is led by Sir Oswald Mosley, a man well known to your Lordships and regarding whom it is quite unnecessary for me to say anything personally. He has an organ called Action and in this organ there are constantly appearing paragraphs that are contrary to everything for which we are fighting and for the good conduct of this war. Then there are the Communists with their paper called the Daily Worker. The Daily Worker day in and day out is doing its best to undermine the morale of the people of this country. I have seen a good many of its editions and heard a great deal about what has been done in Yorkshire and in the Lothians and elsewhere. I have read also a number of the issues of that despicable and pernicious paper. The Peace-Pledgers have not to my knowledge an organ of the same kind as Action or the Daily Worker, but they are emitting all the time leaflets on a large scale all over the country trying to induce the people of this country to stop war altogether, either by negotiation or by any other means, at a moment when we were never in such a bad position. All three organisations are pledged to stop war as soon as possible at any price. What is more, both the British Fascists and the British Communists are pledged to upset our Constitution and to remodel it according to their own views.
There is a gentleman—I call him a gentleman—who emits daily poison over the air from Germany at three or four different times a day and night, commonly called in this country "Lord Haw-Haw" It may not be known to all your Lordships that "Lord Haw-Haw" until he went to Germany, was a leading member of the Fascist group in this country. In fact, I am advised that he was Sir Oswald Mosley's right-hand man. How are we to know that this man called "Lord Haw-Haw"—I believe his real name is Joyce, he is an Anglo-Irish renegade traitor—is not receiving information from his friends amongst the British Fascist group in this country daily to our undoing and our disfavour? All I can say is that I have listened to this man very often—I like to hear the other side—and I have been astonished at the information he has sent over from Germany about this country and about my own part of the country, Scotland, where I am mostly located—things that one would 420 have thought were known only to very few in that limited area. I feel that Sir Oswald Mosley has a great deal to answer for and there are a great many people in this country who would like to see him in a place where he could do less harm than he is doing to-day.
When we are asked to pass legislation as we did yesterday conscripting the whole of our man-power and wealth so that this country may do its utmost to win the war, then I think we are justified in asking His Majesty's Government to eliminate these papers and these men which only undermine the big effort which we are all attempting to accomplish. I am going to submit to my noble friend that this matter should be taken into very serious consideration by His Majesty's Government. I am not going to suggest the wholesale internment of all the Germans and Austrian aliens in this country, but I am going to suggest that all doubtful cases, whatever the hardship that may be caused—and goodness knows we are all going to suffer great hardship in the future—should be interned with as little delay as possible. We cannot wait for tribunals which sit for weeks and then possibly through a sense of sympathy allow people to escape who ought to be shut up. This is not a time to deal with such matters with too much delicacy or nicety. We have to act. We are fighting for our very lives and for our existence as a free people against a most unscrupulous and ruthless enemy. We on the Home Front have a vital responsibility not to let down those who are gallantly and bravely fighting our battles in the war zone. We who are not in the Government are entitled to ask the Government to intern until this war is over any one of whatever nationality, male or female, who might have the slightest value to the enemy. Indeed, I submit that it is the bounden duty of the Government to do so. The Government if they do not do so will be guilty of a grave dereliction of duty for which they will not be forgiven. That, I submit, is the proper way in which to regard this question and I venture to urge upon His Majesty's Government that it is the only way. The country demands that it shall be so regarded, and, indeed, this is the sole policy with which the country will be content.
§ 6.17 p.m.
§ LORD MARCHWOODMy Lords, I feel that we are greatly indebted to the 421 noble Viscount for bringing forward this Motion to-day. I rise to support it and to urge His Majesty's Government to take stronger measures immediately in view of the extreme gravity of the menace which confronts us. Present restrictions, as I view them and as I think the country views them, are totally inadequate. We have age limits between sixteen and sixty years. I am three years older than the extreme limit, but I am sure that if I were a Nazi I could do just as much damage as a man of forty or fifty. I should like to see not only "the restricted age limit but the restriction in regard to the area of residence removed. I should like to know also why women are excluded from the restrictions. I believe that women acting as spies against the interests of our country can be far more dangerous even than men. I know of houses near aerodromes and near the sea coast where German maids are employed. Nothing seems to be done about that. I have heard of cases where the police have told the authorities that they view with apprehension certain people. Inquiries are made and then the police are told; "Oh no, they are quite all right," and no restriction is put upon them. Surely something is wrong there and we are certainly playing into Hitler's hands unless we take stronger measures as regards people over here—the Communists, Fascists, and Peace-Pledgers—who are working against our efforts to win this war. Cannot some action be taken against these people who are working against the Government? At all events, we should stop the issue of their papers.
I feel sure the Government will tell me that it is a difficult matter to intern them all. Then I would say, in that case intern all enemy aliens and all aliens about whom there is any sort of suspicion until they can prove that they are not hostile to the interests of this country. At the present moment we are giving them preferential treatment as; compared with our own people at a time when we are facing grave dangers. Our Allies cannot understand us. They say that here is a great nation doing everything they possibly can to win the war, but leaving this great sore absolutely untouched. Let us prove to them that we are ready to act against treachery and treason in the same strong dynamic way as that in which our new Government are tackling things to-day. The Home Office seem to be mesmerized 422 when it is found that an alien has been naturalized. They seem to think that when that has been done all the Hunnish virus evaporates. Nothing is farther from the truth and I have been forced to the conclusion that a Hun will always be a Hun and is ever ready to turn against those who have befriended him.
I had that experience in Singapore, when we had the mutiny there in the last war when the Germans were interned and we thought everything was quite all right. Even from inside that internment camp they were able, by their crafty underground methods, to get other people to do their nefarious work. They induced Arabs to go and make the Indian regiment there mutiny. The mutineers got arms from the Armoury and went and murdered the guard who were off duty resting and also shot the young fellows who were guarding the internment camp. One of them was a young employee of my own firm. Some of the Germans escaped to Java, whilst others were rounded up afterwards and put back again, but none of them suffered. The only people who suffered were the people who were murdered and an Arab who was executed for the part he had played.
Here we have our splendid police force and our wonderful Commissioner, Sir Philip Game. They have any amount of work and responsibility on their hands at the present time, but whenever they say that this or that person ought to be interned a tribunal comes along and says "No, we are not interning them" and the Home Office do nothing. At the very time when we may want the police on very urgent matters we ought to try to relieve them and not give them greater responsibilities to bear, as I feel is now being done. We have seen what has happened in neutral countries, through their not taking care of alien spies in their midst, which has resulted in thousands of our own soldiers, sailors and airmen losing their lives simply through that neglect. There is no doubt that there is a growing discontent and resentment throughout the country on the part of people who have their sons and relatives fighting at the front to-day, and if something is not done to tighten up restrictions and things happen to go badly for us, the Home Secretary and the Government will be held responsible for lives that may be lost. For that 423 reason alone I urge that stronger measures should be taken.
Fighting for our lives and civilisation we cannot of course take unnecessary risks. For that reason I should like to support the noble Viscount's suggestion: that we should take no more refugees into the country at the present time, none whatever. I wonder whether the Government could make representations to the Americans, who have told us that they are prepared to send clothing and money for the refugees, that they should take a part of them over into their country and relieve us of the burden at the present time. I would wish that we should ask America if she cannot help us in our plight in this direction. We have strong able-bodied men coming over here as refugees from the Continent accompanied by women and children, who have been found out to be spies and working against the interests of this country. I am very pleased that we have passed legislation so that they can have capital punishment meted out to them as soon as they are found out. I urge the noble Duke to make representation to the Government and ask them to take stronger measures, for I believe, if steps are taken as I suggest, it will prevent the betrayal of our cause by Quislings and such-like loathsome reptiles who are now allowed to be at large in our midst. I make this plea because I feel it is in the interests of the country that something should be done at once, and strong measures at that.
§ 6.25 p.m.
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREMy Lords, I am sure that the House is very much in my noble friend's debt for initiating this interesting and, I hope, valuable debate. It is very natural and proper that events which have taken place in other countries should have focused attention on the dangers to which we ourselves have been subjected owing to the presence in our midst of considerable numbers of aliens. My noble friend's Motion on the Paper refers only to aliens, but he did go at some length into other aspects of this question. I can assure him that individuals such as members of Fascist or Communist organisations and of the Irish Republican Army, British subjects who have been long resident in foreign countries and may have 424 absorbed ideas current there, and other categories of persons who may be dangerous, are all being carefully borne in mind. My noble friend will be aware that a considerable number of persons of British nationality were arrested this morning. Some of their names have already been made known, and a list will be published as soon as the round-up has been completed. Those people have been arrested, not because of views they hold, but because of the danger that the organisations of which they are members might be used in the execution of acts prejudicial to the safety of the State.
There are two important factors to bear in mind in relation to aliens. One is that before 1914 there was no control whatever over immigration—no registration or records of the alien population—but that ever since that date there has been a strict control of immigration and provision for registration of all aliens. The second factor is that the alien population in this country is comparatively small. The total number of all nationalities, including refugees, at the outbreak of war was 238,000. That represents about one-tenth of the alien population of France. Moreover, our position is very different from that of Holland. In Holland there were 100,000 Nazi Germans resident in the country and in close touch with unknown numbers of Nazi Dutchmen. Holland, a small, weak country, desperately anxious to preserve her neutrality, was unable owing to treaty obligations to interfere in any way with free communication between Holland and Germany. As your Lordships will be aware, a treaty was in existence which gave the Germans the right of free access to Dutch territory, and the Dutch were anxious, as your Lordships can imagine, to avoid incurring the displeasure of their powerful neighbours by interfering with the activities of the German residents. Until the very moment of the outbreak of hostilities these Germans had been in close and unrestricted touch with their fellow-countrymen. Our own alien population here has been under supervision for the past twenty-five years, and under extremely close and rigorous supervision and entirely cut off from Germany for the past nine months.
To one phrase which my noble friend used to-day I feel bound to take exception. He said that at one point it became 425 known that information was reaching Germany through the enemy aliens or refugees living in our midst. It became known to him, and it became known to writers of various tittle-tattle in the Press, but it became known to no responsible person, and my noble friend has no evidence whatever for making that suggestion. It did not become known that news reached Germany through these aliens.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMay I reply to that at once? We have always understood that it became known in that way. The noble Duke says that it did not become known, bur, until he can prove that it did not become known in that way, I think we are all entitled to believe that it did become known in that way.
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRENo, I think not. It is not possible to say that information has not reached Germany through these people, but it has not become known that it has.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKAm I to understand from the noble Duke that he denies that it has become known in that way?
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRENot for a moment. I do not deny it, but I do say that the noble Viscount has no right to say that informal ion was reaching the enemy through these people. It did not become known. Scores and scores of these stones of "Lord Haw-Haw" showing astonishing local knowledge, and so on, have been investigated, but there has been no shadow of evidence that information is reaching Germany through these sources.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKThen how did "Lord Haw-Haw" receive his information? I have listened to him very often, and have heard him say things that he could have known only through information from this country.
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREThere is internal evidence that he receives, no doubt from countries such as Holland, considerable numbers of local papers from this country, and no doubt he studies them.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKI do not want to go on with this, but he has mentioned things over the wireless which could not have become known to him through the local papers; they would aid not be mentioned in the local papers at all.
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREMy right honourable friend has investigated scores and scores of stories exactly similar to those which the noble Viscount now tells us. If the noble Viscount is in possession of details, he would be doing a national service by allowing them to be investigated, but I do beg him not to believe all the tittle-tattle which he hears.
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREThe alien population of this country increased considerably during the years 1933 to 1939 through the influx of about 55,000 refugees from Germany and Austria and of about 8,000 to 9,000 from Czechoslovakia. The total number of Germans and Austrians, including the 55,000 refugees, is about 74,000, the balance of 19,000 being composed partly of Germans and Austrians who have been long resident here and partly of female domestic servants admitted on Ministry of Labour permits. A considerable number of those belonging to the last-named category were allowed to go home on the outbreak of war, technicians and other persons who might have been of value to Germany's war effort being detained.
My noble friend rather implied that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Home Affairs has acted reluctantly and under duress. That is far from being the case; he has acted as he thought proper in the national interest, being in full possession of all the facts. Immediately on the outbreak of war, all Germans and Austrians whose names appeared on the Security list which had been maintained by the police—that is to say, members of Nazi organisations and so forth, people whose activities had been noted as undesirable—were forthwith interned. They numbered some 2,000. The immigration of both refugees and other aliens was stopped, even where the visa had previously been granted. Admission of aliens since the war has been limited to those whose visits to this country were in the national interest; they consisted for the most part of short-term visitors for business purposes, and these have been most carefully checked and supervised. It was decided at the outbreak of hostilities—and I think I can say that it was decided with the general approval of the public—that in view of the very large number of refugees among 427 the Germans and Austrians, the policy of wholesale internment should not be pursued. It is one of Great Britain's oldest traditions that she is the friend of and provides succour for refugees flying from tyranny. It is a tradition which we value and which has been of value to us; we owe many trades in this country to refugees from past tyrannies.
It was recognised quite clearly at the time that there was some danger in pursuing this course, since obviously some of the so-called refugees might not be genuine refugees but enemy agents gaining a foothold in this country in the guise of refugees. To deal with this danger, the only alternative to a policy of wholesale internment—that is to say, the policy of the individual examination of each case on its merits—was adopted. Tribunals were established all over the country whose duty it was to classify enemy aliens into three categories. Category A were to be interned; Category B were to be subjected to special restrictions with regard to travelling more than five miles from their residences, the possession of certain articles such as cameras, motor cars and so on; and Category C were to be treated as friendly aliens and subjected only to the same restrictions as Allied and neutral aliens. My noble friend pressed strongly that non-enemy aliens should be more rigorously treated than they are now. I would remind him that non-enemy aliens are represented in this country by Ambassadors, and it is not really practical politics, unless you are in a position to make some definite charge against them, to arrest and intern Americans and other persons who can be described as non-enemy aliens. It is necessary to have something to go upon, or diplomatic representations will be made on their behalf, and you will find yourself in a very difficult position.
The tribunals—I do not know whether your Lordships are aware of these facts—were instructed, in any case where there was any doubt, to resolve the doubt in favour of national security. As a result of the investigations of the tribunals, a further 568 aliens were interned, 6,800 were placed in Category B, and 64,000 were placed in Category C. Of the last-named number, 51,000 were refugees, and 37,000 were women, of whom some 2,600 were British-born women. Whatever be 428 the merits or demerits of the policy which has been pursued, it is important to remember that of the 74,000 Germans and Austrians and the 8,000 Czechs who are in this country, the vast majority hate the Germans, and with good reason, even more than we do. They have been the victims of Nazi persecution and cruelty. Many of them have fled from Germany without any of their possessions, in order to get away from a situation which they found to be intolerable. It is important to remember also that the vast majority of them are in jobs, many of which are of great national importance. The refugee population includes many persons of great scientific and technical attainments, and a considerable number of valuable new industries has been established here, especially in the Special Areas, under refugee direction and control.
I remember being very much impressed some three or four years ago when the Master of Trinity, one of the greatest scientists of this or of any other age, told me that since the Nazi regime had become firmly established, it was quite unnecessary to continue to read German scientific periodicals. It used to be absolutely necessary for anyone who wished to keep abreast of modern scientific thought and development to do this; but the persecution of the Jews and of all liberal-minded men, and the regimentation of all forms of thought, while not diminishing the volume of scientific writing, which remained about the same, so far reduced its value as to make it quite worthless; it was mere repetition of approved Nazi textbooks. We are undoubtedly the gainers, and the very substantial gainers, by the expulsion from Germany of very many of the best elements in the country, and I trust that we shall never be panicked into blunting or destroying what is a very powerful weapon in our hands.
Since the outbreak of war certain areas have been declared to be protected areas, and no aliens can enter or remain in such areas without the permission of the police authorities. On May 11, as the result of the invasions of Norway, Denmark and Holland, and Fifth Column activities in those countries, the Government decided on the clearance of all Germans from a larger area which included the whole of the south and east coasts of Britain. My noble friend asked specific questions as to why only these areas should have been closed and why aliens under sixteen and 429 over sixty should not have been interned, and also why female aliens should not have been interned. The answer is that the zone was selected by the military authorities for the military areas. It was apparent from what happened in Holland and elsewhere that Filth Column activities depend upon rapidly arriving assistance from Germany itself and upon a concerted plan. There is no evidence whatever that any such plan exists, but if such a plan had existed it is believed that the clearing of those areas of male Germans between sixteen and sixty would effectively destroy it.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKDo you mean a plan of landing parachutists, or the landing in large numbers of troop carriers?
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRENo. As a military plan we believe that land co-operation would be effectively destroyed by the internment of these categories of male aliens. I ought to warn your Lordships that many applications have already been received in regard to key-men in various industries which have been seriously affected by this measure, and it would undoubtedly be necessary to make some releases, for example, on the representations of my right honourable friend the Minister of Supply, who has found himself very seriously impeded by this measure.
It will be recalled that after the original review by the tribunals was concluded, a second review was begun. This review was to cover enemy aliens placed in Category B, and all aliens resident in the protected areas, and any in Category C about whom the police had some doubt. This second review has not yet been completed, but in view of the urgency of the situation the Home Secretary decided on May 15 that as a further immediate measure all males between sixteen and sixty at present in Category B should be temporarily interned. There are other categories of aliens besides enemy aliens or refugees. The principal classes are as follows: there are 47,600 Russians, 19,000 Italians, 13,600 Americans, 10,000 Swiss, 8,000 Polish and 11,600 French. There are also smaller numbers of very many different nationalities. The Russians are mainly people who have been resident here for many years but have never become naturalized—people who fled out of Russia at the time of the revolution in that country. The measures taken 430 since the outbreak of war in regard to these aliens provide for very full registration particulars and the notification of any absence from the place of residence for more than fourteen days. As regards the eastern coastal area from which Germans and Austrians have been swept up in the last few days, stringent new restrictions have been placed on neutral and Allied aliens. These involve daily reporting to the police, the prohibition of the use of cars and bicycles and being indoors between 8 p.m. and 6 a.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKWhy has the age of sixty been taken, or the minimum age of sixteen? The noble Duke has not answered that point.
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREThe Regulations I am dealing with now refer to all aliens in these areas, whether friendly or enemy aliens. I tried to make myself plain to the noble Viscount about the age question, sixteen to sixty, to which he attaches such importance. The position is that the Government, having considered this question very carefully, came to the conclusion that there was no evidence that any plan of co-operation between advancing Germans and Filth Column Germans here had been made, and, if it had, it would be effectively wrecked by the internment of male Germans between sixteen and sixty. I do not say it is wholly impossible that there may be other Germans who would be dangerous. The Germans may be relying on the Austrian housemaids in this country, but on the whole I think it is improbable that an effective scheme of military co-operation between parachutists or troops carried by aeroplanes could be carried out if all the male Germans between sixteen and sixty have been interned.
With regard to future action, I can assure your Lordships that the whole subject is under close and constant review by the responsible authorities. It is obviously inadvisable to announce in advance details of future action, which would enable fresh dispositions to be made by the Fifth Column, supposing there be one in existence in this country, but I want to emphasize that the policy is not static, but fluid. Developments which none of us can foresee may make different dispositions necessary, and I am not saying that the Government are firmly or irrevocably committed to any particular 431 course, but that the matter is under constant and careful review by people who are in possession of all the facts as far as they are available.
There still remains to be considered Category C—men and women who were not included in the sweep-up in the coastal zone, and non-enemy aliens of all kinds. The only difference existing at the moment in the treatment of these classes is that Category C aliens are not free to enter the coastal zone. The purpose of the work of the tribunals since the outbreak of war has been to ascertain which of the Germans and Austrians could be treated as friendly aliens. There is, therefore, a strong case in logic for treating them and other aliens similarly. Actually, we probably know a good deal more in regard to Category C aliens than we do about many of the neutral alien residents who, as I said, are free to enter the non-protected area.
§ LORD HARMSWORTHCan the noble Duke tell me whether from his experience and the experience of the Home Office the high police authorities in the counties and boroughs and in London are perfectly satisfied with the degree of restrictions placed on aliens in their areas?
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREThe Home Office naturally are almost entirely guided in their policy by close and day-to-day contact with the police authorities throughout the country. I cannot say that every police officer is entirely satisfied, but I can give the most categorical assurance that the measures that are being taken have had the full approval of the police authorities.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMay I ask the noble Duke about Oxford? I have a telegram in my hand from the Chief Constable of Oxford, saying he has made representations to the Home Secretary and has not received any satisfaction.
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREI was careful not to say that every police officer throughout the country was satisfied, but I said that, speaking broadly, the Home Office have been in the closest touch with the police authorities.
§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREThere remains the question of the refugees who are even now pouring into the country from Holland, Belgium and elsewhere. These refugees are examined at the ports of arrival by the immigration officers in collaboration with the security services, and are subjected to further examination at the reception centres in London before they are allowed to disperse to the billets provided for them. The danger of allowing refugees to come to this country without proper examination is fully realised by the authorities. This examination imposes a heavy strain on the responsible authorities, and since it has to be carried out in difficult and urgent conditions the Home Secretary has, as a further safeguard, made an Order requiring all refugees to comply with the special restrictions contained in Article 6A and Article 9A of the Aliens Order, which means, in effect, that they are treated as enemy aliens. Further, on arrival at their destination these refugees are required to fill in a detailed questionnaire giving definite information about themselves, with a view to appropriate action being taken. Arrangements are being made to obtain information as to the qualifications of these refugees, and it is proposed to absorb as many as possible into the industries of the country and to employ them in particular for such work as agricultural work.
In times of great stress such as we are passing through it is only too easy to be stampeded into adopting panic measures, and it is very understandable that the cry "Intern the lot" should be raised. I trust your Lordships will not join in that cry. The public safety is, and will remain, the Government's first consideration, and, as I have informed your Lordships, the tribunals have definite instructions that when in doubt they should intern the person concerned. But to intern the whole of these Category C enemy aliens would not only be unjust and cruel—that is a minor consideration; injustice and cruelty are inseparable from war, though justice and kindness remain worth while so long as safety permits b but also it would be a gross waste of effort and man-power which we can ill afford in this grave emergency. We are desperately short of many categories of skilled workers, agricultural workers, and many forms of labour, and many of these so-called enemy aliens are putting their 433 backs into the cause, which is their cause as well as ours, and are doing valuable work. To deprive the country of their services and of the services of the people who would be required to look after them in concentration camps would be a waste of effort which would not be conducive to the object all of us have at heart.
§ 6.54 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I have listened to the noble Duke's reply, which of course was couched in the usual courteous terms in which he always replies to Motions in our debates. I find, however, very little comfort in the conditions in which we find ourselves to-day. The war has been going on now for nine months, and we; know what Nazi Germany had in view in those other countries, although naturally we were unable to stem the actions they had in contemplation until after they had taken them. If that speech had been delivered nine months ago it would have given me and a great many people in this country very great comfort. It would at least have indicated to the country that the whole subject would be kept under constant review. To-day the enemy is at our gate. We have not got time to consider this question from the point of view of constant review. I do not speak in any panic-stricken voice. I do not think any of us in this country will be panic-stricken even when the German lands in his parachute. But I feel that in order to retain the confidence of the country in this matter, if the Home Secretary, for whom I have the greatest respect, and whom I have known for many years—probably longer thin most members of this House—does not take stronger action than he is doing to-day, then I suggest that the Government should find somebody who will. I beg leave to withdraw my Motion.
§ Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.