§ LORD LAMINGTONMy Lords, I desire to ask His Majesty's Government for information as to the position of affairs in Persia. Might I at the outset allude to the lamented absence of one who was a past-master in all matters relating to Persia and always kept him- 352 self abreast of events in that country? I refer to the late Lord Curzon. Only about a year ago, when I raised this question, he took a very prominent part in the discussion and, with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Parmoor, who replied for the Government of the day, gave a very satisfactory account of the improvement which had taken place in the condition of Persia. He stated that brigandage had been suppressed to a very large extent, that order had been restored throughout Persia, and that the finances of the country had been placed on a better footing. I hope this afternoon that the noble Earl, Lord Balfour, who I understand is to reply to my Question on behalf of the Government, will be able to inform your Lordships that that condition of affairs is being maintained.
I understand there have been differences of opinion with Dr. Millspaugh, the American adviser, regarding the working of the finances of Persia, and that he has threatened to send in his resignation. He found fault with the fact that the Government issued loans and obtained money without the sanction of the Mejliss, the Persian Parliament, and in November last year a Commission came to a certain decision regarding the regulations by which the finances of Persia should be governed. I do not know whether those decisions have been ratified by the Mejliss, or whether last year's Budget has ever been passed. At a, later date in November, on one occasion when the ostensible ruler of the country, Reza Khan, or Sardar Sepah, sent a cheque for money to the Treasury, Dr. Millspaugh refused to have it cashed because there was no money in the Treasury. The Sardar Sepah then sent emissaries clown to the Treasury, and they imprisoned all the officials who happened to be there at that time, including an American financial adviser, Mr. McGaskie. However, they were very soon set at liberty. Dr. Millspaugh sent in his resignation, but was subsequently persuaded to withdraw it. I hope for the good of Persia that Dr. Millspaugh is still at the Treasury there.
In making any statement in connection with Persia I do not pretend to be stating facts, because it is difficult to obtain accurate information. All I am saying is that this information has been brought 353 to my notice from different sources, and I hope the noble Earl, Lord Balfour, wilt be able to elucidate any references that I may make to events which may have taken place there. Another incident occurred when the American vice-consul, Major Imbrie, was assassinated in the streets of Teheran, not for any political motive whatsoever. As a result the Persian Government gave a substantial sum to his widow, and also paid a large sum to the American Government to cover the cost of sending a warship to Bushire to take back to America the body of Major Imbrie. I believe that the American Government did not wish to take that money itself, and expressed a desire that it should be set aside for the advancement of education in Persia. I do not know whether the noble Earl can give us any information in regard to that. One difficulty in connection with this matter was this. The Persian Government only wanted to execute one of the assassins because of the law of the Koran which lays it down that only one life should be taken for one life. The American Government were, however, very firm in the matter and in the end two criminals were shot.
One outstanding fact in Persia to-day is the strong character of Reza Khan, or Sardar Sepah. He is remarkable in what he has done for the good of Persia. He is also remarkable in regard to his relations with the Soviet Government. He is strenuously against the introduction of any Bolshevist methods or ideas into Persia: yet he has in no way, I understand, offended the Soviet authorities. A Soviet-Persian Treaty was executed within the last twelve months. This Treaty was for the supposed benefit of Persia, and was to give back to her some of the land on the north-east frontier of Turkistan of which she had been deprived by Russia, and also an island in the Caspian. Persia was also to have handed over to her without compensation certain roads which in former days were controlled by Russia. I do not know how far this Treaty has been for the permanent good of Persia, but no doubt it has created more amiable feelings between the two countries.
The Sardar Sepah, strong man as he is, figured in one unfortunate incident, or at all events an incident which to my mind seems unfortunate. That was an 354 incident regarding the fortunes of the Sheikh of Mohammerah, at the head of the Persian Gulf, with whom we have always been on very friendly, terms; in fact we had some kind of understanding with him before the War, and during the War he was a useful ally. He was, in fact, and always has been, a good friend to this country. Reza Khan sent a force down practically to take the Sheikh of Mohammerah. It was only by our Own friendly but unofficial interference that no serious harm was done, and that warfare was not engaged in, but in doing this I believe we recognised and allowed that Persia was the suzerain Power of Mohammerah, which we had not hitherto recognised. Having come to this agreement, the Sheikh of Moharnmerah was invited up to Persia, and was promptly made a prisoner. I do not know where he is now, or what has happened to him. I hope that some information will be given on this matter.
I am aware that it is a delicate one, but it is important to our country, because our prestige in the Persian Gulf has been somewhat impaired by this incident. Mohammerah being situated on the Persian Gulf, and we having recognised that we have special relations with the Sheikh of Mohammerah, and that he is subject to Persia—these facts put us in a very invidious position. We do not want anything to be done that is calculated permanently to lessen our prestige in the Persian Gulf, at the same time we cannot well interfere between the suzerain Power and one of its subordinates. This point, I think, will be one of great interest and importance to any one acquainted with affairs in Persia, and I hope that we may have some information in regard to it.
Perhaps the noble Earl will also say something about the Shah himself. He has been in Europe for two or three years, and we should like to know whether there is any likelihood that he will return to Persia. The future government of Persia depends a great deal upon whether its hereditary ruler is to take up his duties or not. What is to happen as regards the future control of Persia? Another question that I should like to ask is about the oil concessions in Northern Persia. Two years ago, I understand, there was some competition 355 between ourselves and American oil companies as to who should get concessions in that part of Persia, and some friction was caused and hostility shown to our intervention by the American companies. I have no idea myself what has taken place in regard to those oil concessions.
The most important thing of all is to know what are our present relations with Persia. Unhappily, they have been very much strained in recent years, first of all, owing to that (in my opinion) ill-conceived and very unfortunate Anglo-Russian Convention, which the Persians regarded as threatening the independence of Persia, and which culminated in Mr. Shuster, the American financial adviser, having to leave Persia. Then again, owing to the War it was necessary in our own interests as well as in the interests of Persia for us to take certain military operations in that country. That, not unnaturally, created a certain dislike on the part of Persia. She did not realise the danger, either from the Turks or the Germans. After the War was over there came the Anglo-Persian Agreement, which the late Lord Curzon hoped to get through. It was regarded by Persia as making a serious inroad in her independence and was never ratified. I hope that Persia is now free from any suspicions that we wish to do her any harm.
There is another point to which I desire to allude. Last November I read in a magazine some very hard things which were being said about us in the United States in regard to our action in Persia. Responsible persons made speeches saying that the United States should not do anything to help to draw Persia out of the jaws of Russia in order to place Persia in the jaws of England, and suggesting that we were aiming at a virtual protectorate over Persia. These were very untrue and unfortunate utterances. It is entirely to the interest of this country, with its Indian Empire, to have a free, prosperous, strong and independent Persia, so long as our privileged position in the Persian Gulf is recognised. Lord Curzon, on one occasion, said that Persia is the glacis of the defences of India; and so it is, and I hope the noble Earl who is to reply will he able to say that a better understanding exists to-day between ourselves and Persia, and, incidentally, with the United States, with regard to our attitude towards Persia.
356 There is a minor matter connected with the internal affairs of Persia on which I should like to ask a question. Is it the case that legislation has been passed for the purpose of improving the hygienic condition of the factories? I learn from different missionary sources that factories on a European scale are being erected and that there is to be a limitation of child labour. Children of four and five used to work in the carpet factories, but the age is to be raised to eight or nine, so that children will not be able to work at such an immature age as before. This will be of great benefit to the health of the population.
I have not given notice to the noble Earl of the point I desire to make with regard to the Parsees. Persia was the original home of the Parsee and I am told there is a movement that they should go back and form a settlement. Up to a short time ago they were liable to religious persecution, but I learn from a Parsee source that they are entirely free from that now, and that there is an idea they should go back and help in the regeneration of Persia. Then I should like to ask whether anything has been done by the Persian Government towards making roads, whether any railway schemes have been adumbrated and whether they are likely to take effect. I understand there is to be an air service from Teheran to Moscow. I do not know whether it has been established or not, but I believe there is to be one, and also an air service from Teheran to Baghdad, so that people going to Teheran will be able to go to Beyruth, also by air service. I do not know whether these services are actually in operation or not, or how soon they are likely to be in operation.
In my Notice I omitted to ask for Papers. Last year, in replying to me, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Parmoor, quoted from a Despatch, and was called to order by the noble and learned Earl, Lord Birkenhead, who pointed out that Lord Parmoor could not quote from a Despatch unless he placed the whole Despatch on the Table of the House. The late Lord Curzon took up the same point. Lord Parmoor, although he did not refuse my Motion, asked that it should be postponed for further consideration. I should like to ask the noble 357 Earl to-night whether he will have a. Persian Blue-book prepared. It is a long time since we have had definite information of that country and it is a country in which we have peculiar and grave interests.
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE EARL OF BALFOUR)My Lords, my noble friend has ended by suggesting that the Foreign Office should prepare Papers dealing, as I understood him, with the whole of the internal condition of Persia. Without consulting the Foreign Secretary, I am afraid I am not in a position to give him a specific answer on that point, but I confess that, if the practice he desires to see adopted with regard to Persia is to become general with regard to all the independent States in the world, it seems to me that as a taxpayer I should somewhat object to the cost of the Blue-books that would result from the curiosity of noble Lords, and the Foreign Office itself would have thrown upon it an amount of work which I think they would feel extremely onerous and not very conducive to the public service.
Moreover, the noble Lord must remember that it is not always convenient, or always conducive to good international relations, that one nation should publish an account of what some other nation is doing in the matter of roads, internal arrangements, and legislation of all kinds. Those questions, when they directly touch either our interests or our honour, are questions with which we should have to deal and on which it is our business clearly to give Parliament information in order to justify our action or our abstention from action, as the ease may be, but mere general curiosity about the internal conditions of friendly and independent States is a passion which must be exercised with caution and certainly not to an extent which, if made general and not confined to one privileged country like Persia, would flood the public with Blue-books and would be found costly and, I think, embarrassing.
§ LORD LAMINGTONIt has been done before.
§ THE EARL OF BALFOURThere have been Blue-books published about Persia but surely only because our honour and interest were concerned, because points 358 had arisen in which British policy was profoundly interested and on which the British Legislature had a right to ask and obtain adequate information. As for the particular questions which the noble Lord has asked me, I will do my best to answer him, though my best, I am afraid, may not be very good, as my knowledge is necessarily imperfect upon the subject with which this Question deals. I think his first point concerned finance. He asked me how the finances of Persia stood. Such information as I have upon the subject indicates that they certainly are not in an unfavourable position. They are far more favourable, in fact, than I am afraid is the case with many States more powerful than Persia. Persia has practically made its Budget meet, and, on the whole, may congratulate itself upon its financial prosperity. This is in no small measure due, I am given to understand, to the efforts of the American financial advisers whom Persia has called into her counsels. Their labours have produced admirable results. I think that the Americans are to be congratulated on having lent these efficient advisers and that the Persians are to be congratulated on having made good use of their services. My noble friend indicated that there had been friction now and then. I have not the least doubt that there has been friction at some time or another, for those who give good advice about money are not always the people who are most popular with those to whom the advice is given.
Then my noble friend asked me about the Sheikh of Mohammerah. He was perfectly right in saying that the Sheikh of Mohammerah was a chieftain in whom we had great confidence, who had proved himself loyal to all his pledges to the British Government and towards whom we entertain the roost friendly feeling. I think my noble friend was not quite correct in suggesting that the Sheikh of Mohammerah had ever been treated by us as an independent Prince. He has always, I believe, been under the suzerainty of Persia, and is under the suzerainty of Persia now. My noble friend referred to an upset which occurred quite recently between the Persian Prime Minister and the Sheikh. I am glad to tell him, and I am sure he will be very pleased to hear, that that incident has ended, so far as my informa- 359 tion goes, in the most friendly fashion, and the relations between the two are now all that could be desired.
With regard to the future movements at the Shah, whom rumour asserts to be at present enjoying himself on the Riviera, I have nothing to say. I have no official information, and I am not at all disposed to think that it will be particularly expedient or decorous to ask what the intentions of that potentate may be. At any rate, I have no information to give my noble friend on that subject. The next point in the Question put by my noble friend related to the oil question in the Northern Provinces of Persia. My noble friend was perfectly right in saying that negotiations between various great oil companies were going on last year, but I am sure that no settlement has been arrived at and I believe that there is no recent official information upon the subject.
The only point that I have not dwelt upon is the final observation of my noble friend in regard to the general relations between this country and Persia. He went back to the Anglo-Russian Agreement, from the policy of which he differs and which it certainly is not my business to defend. But that is ancient history—indeed, it is now obsolete history, for it deals with a condition of things wholly passed away and touches upon controversies which there is little advantage in reviving. Nor do I think that there is much substance in some American criticisms, of which I confess that I had not heard until my noble friend spoke of them this evening, in which some American critics seemed to think that England had behaved, or desired to behave, towards Persia in a manner which would interfere with the independence of that country. I do not know who the critics were; my noble friend spoke of them with respect, and they may deserve respect, but they are clearly very ill-informed on the subject of Persia and on 360 the subject of British intentions with regard to Persia.
This country, under the present Government, as, I believe, under the last Government and the Government that preceded it and, indeed, all British Governments, has had one policy in view. We desire to see a Persia which is independent, which is free, which we can treat as a neighbour on equal terms, and which we justly regard, through its efficiency, its civilisation and its power, as a security for the general position in the East, so far as our own interests are concerned. That view we still entertain. We desire the independence of Persia, we desire the prosperity of Persia, and we rejoice that its independence is secured and that its prosperity is increasing.