HL Deb 10 July 1924 vol 58 cc464-71

Order of the Day for receiving the Report of Amendments read.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT HALDANE)

My Lords, before moving that this Report be now received it would be convenient if I told your Lordships in a sentence or two what the substance of the Amendments is. They are all drafting Amendments, or else they are Amendments of a technical kind. They involve no question of principle at all, excepting one. Since the Committee stage further negotiations have taken place with the small heritors. The Government have tried their best to be very careful to regard the interests of these small heritors, and they have done so. As your Lordships may remember, they are small people who have paid under £2. They are compelled to redeem, but on very easy terms, and, as the Bill stood, they were under personal liability. That left the Church in an uncomfortable position because there might be small heritors who had gone off to British Columbia, or California, or South America and the Church would be in a position of considerable embarrassment in pursuing them. We have solved the difficulty by making the payments of the small heritors not personal debts but stipendiary charges and we have arranged that the redemption is to be upon extremely easy terms—eighteen years' purchase; or if they please they may pay small instalments in addition to the payment they make for stipends in the course of the eighteen years. That wipes the thing off, and the position of the small heritor now under the Bill is one which is to be greatly envied. That is the only Amendment of substance. It has been agreed between the Church, the heritors and the Government, and I think your Lordships may take it as an agreed Amendment. I now move that the Report be received, and I shall afterwards move the various amendments.

Moved, That the Report be now received.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH

My Lords, I desire to corroborate what my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack has said as to the meeting which was held between the heritors, the Government, and the Church, and I think all parties are to be congratulated upon having come so quickly to an agreement. The Amendments are of a technical character, and I hope that your Lordships will agree to them.

On Question, Motion agreed to, and Report of Amendments received accordingly.

CLAUSE 8.—(Payment of standardised stipend):

Amendment moved—/p> Clause 8, page 5, line 30, leave out ("become redeemable") and insert ("been redeemed ").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

CLAUSE 10.—(Augmentation, of stipend):

Amendment moved— Clause 10, page 6, line 18, leave out from ("or") to the end of line 20, and insert ("a standardised stipend if payable may").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 11:

Teind Rolls.

(3) The Court of Session shall make by Act of Sederunt, with the approval of the Treasury, such rules and regulations as may in the judgment of the Court from time to time be necessary to regulate the amount of the fees to be paid to the Clerk of Teinds in connection with the preparation, issue, and adjustment of the teind rolls and the time and place of the payment of the said fees. The expenses of the preparation, issue and adjustment of a teind roll including where necessary the expense of the preparation of a state of teinds shall be borne by the heritors in proportion to the amount of the total teind applicable to the lands of each heritor but any heritor whose teinds have been valued and surrendered before the date of standardisation shall be relieved of his share of the expenses by the General Trustees.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR moved, in subsection (3), to omit all words after "fees," where that word secondly occurs.

Amendment moved— Clause 11, page 8, line 13, leave out from ("fees") to the end of the clause, and insert ("the expenses of the preparation, issue and adjustment of the teind roll, including where a state of teinds is necessary the expense of the preparation thereof, shall be apportioned among the heritors (including any heritors whose teinds have been valued and surrendered before the date of standardisation) in proportion to the amount of the total teind applicable to the lands of each heritor. The share of such expenses apportioned to any heritor, other than a heritor whose teinds have been valued and surrendered as aforesaid shall be payable by such heritor, and the share of such expenses apportioned to any heritor whose teinds have been valued and surrendered as aforesaid shall be payable by the General Trustees").—(The. Lord Chancellor.)

On Question. Amendment agreed to.

Clause 14:

Provisions where stipend does not exceed two pounds.

14. Where the standard value of the stipend exigible from the teinds of the lands of any heritor in a parish as shown by the teind roll does not exceed the sum of two pounds:— (1) the heritor or other person liable in payment of the said stipend shall redeem the same either

  1. (a) at the first term of Whitsunday or Martinmas which shall occur not less than three months after the date on which the teind roll of the parish becomes final for such consideration or in such manner as may he agreed upon between the person so liable and the General Trustees; or
  2. (b) by payment to the General Trustees at the said term of Whitsunday or Martinmas of a sum equal to the standard value of the said stipend multiplied by eighteen; or
    3. 467
  3. (c) by payment to the General Trustees of a series of thirty-six equal half-yearly instalment commencing at the said term of Whitsunday or Martinmas, each instalment being equal to one-half of the standard value of the said stipend with the addition of seventy-five per centum:

(2) All payments due to the General Trustees in respect of the redemption, of a stipend shall be recoverable by the General Trustees from the heritor or other person liable for such payments as a personal debt:

Amendments moved—

Clause 14, page 10, lines 25 to 31, leave out paragraph (c) and insert the following new paragraph: ("(c) by payment to the General Trustees, along with each half-yearly payment of the said stipend during a period of eighteen years commencing at the said term of Whit-Sunday or Martinmas, of a redemption instalment equal to seventy-five per centum of the half-yearly payment of the stipend, which redemption instalment shall be recoverable by the General Trustees in the same maner as the half-yearly payment of the stipend.") Clause 14, page 10, lines 32 to 36, leave out subsection (2).—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 15:

Valuation and surrender of teinds.

15.—(1) After the passing of this Act the provisions set out in the Sixth Schedule to this Act which relate to the obtaining of valuations of teinds and the surrender of valued teinds shall have effect for those purposes and the present law and practice relating thereto shall cease to apply but without prejudice to any proceedings taken before the passing of this Act.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR moved, at the end of subsection (1), to insert: "or to any proceedings which may be taken within twelve months after the passing of this Act for the approbation of reports of sub-commissioners relating to the valuation of teinds ".

Amendment moved— Clause 15, page 11, line 7, at the end of the line insert the said words.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 25 (Transfer of right in parish churches and manses):

Amendments moved—

Clause 25, page 18, line 11, leave out ("in a summary manner")

Clause 25, line 13, at end insert ("deal with the application in a summary manner and shall")

Clause 25, line 18, leave out ("one year") and insert ("three years").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 28 (Transfer of Parish churchyards):

Amendment moved—

Clause 28, page 22, line 16, at end insert the following new subsection: ("(2) Where the powers and duties conferred and imposed by the Burial Grounds (Scotland) Act, 1855, are exercised and carried out by a local authority other than the parish council, the foregoing provisions of this section shall, with the necessary modifications, have effect as if that authority were named therein instead of the parish council, and any expenses of the local authority due to the operation of this section shall be defrayed in the same manner as expenses under the said Act of 1855 ").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved— After Clause 35, page 25, insert the following new clause:—

Provisions with respect to certain registration districts.

"36. Where under the provisions of the Births. Deaths and Marriages (Scotland) Acts, 1854 to 1910, the powers and duties by those Acts conferred and imposed on parish councils belong to and are discharged by the heritors, it shall be lawful for the Sheriff, upon the application of the parish council of any parish wholly or partly comprised in the registration district, or upon the application of the Registrar-General of Births. Deaths and Marriages in Scotland, to regulate and determine all questions as to the right to elect a registrar for the registration district, and all questions as to the assessments to be levied for registration purposes within the district; and it shall also be lawful for the Sheriff to regulate and determine all questions as to such right of election and such assessments in any case where two or more parishes or portions of parishes may hereafter be united into one registration district; and any decision of the Sheriff under this section shall be final and not subject to review."—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 37:

Saving for obligations of relief.

37. Nothing in this Act shall prejudice or affect any obligation to relieve the heritor of any lands from liability in respect of any stipend or augmentation thereof exigible from the tiends of such lands, and any such obligation shall extend to relief from liabilty in respect of any standard charge over those lands.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR moved to insert at the end of the clause "or in respect of any payments under the section of this Act relating to provisions where stipend does not exceed two pounds."

Amendment moved— Clause 37, page 25, line 30, at end insert the said words.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 38 (Interpretation):

Amendment moved— Clause 38, page 26, line 5, after ("or") insert ("other heritable rights.").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedules:

Amendments moved— First Schedule, page 28, line 5, leave out ("during") and insert ("for") Second Schedule, page 29, line 11, after the second ("the") insert ("former").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Fourth Schedule:

    cc469-70
  1. FOURTH SCHEDULE. 215 words
    2. cc470-1
  2. SIXTH SCHEDULE. 298 words