THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (THE EARL OF CRAWFORD)My Lords, I beg to make the Motion standing in my name, that Standing Order No. XXXIX be considered in order to its being suspended for this day's sitting. With your Lordships' permission I will explain the Bills to which I ask that this Motion shall apply. The most important is the Unemployment Insurance Bill standing in the name of Lord Gorell. It has become a matter of great urgency inasmuch as large numbers of unemployed people have now exhausted their rights to draw benefit, and unless the Bill can be passed very shortly—it is already overdue—the number of such persons must be considerably increased. The Bill also has a retrospective clause which the noble Lord will explain, and it consolidates and extends another Act which expires on May 9. It is 142 therefore desirable that this measure should be passed as soon as possible. It has been the subject of a good deal of attention in another place. Four or five Amendments will be proposed by Lord Gorell. Nearly all of them are of a drafting character, but I understand that the noble Earl, Lord Malmesbury, has also an Amendment which he desires to moves.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYDoes the noble Earl propose to take this Bill through all its stages to-day?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYThe noble Earl has mentioned Amendments which are to be proposed. May I point out that we have not seen them yet.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDI am afraid that is the case. They are on the Table, but it is true that your Lordships have not had an opportunity of studying them. Then there is the Kenya Divorces (Validity) Bill. If that Bill produces a controversy I suggest that it should not be concluded before the Easter recess, but it follows the lines of the India Bill legalising certain marriages, and it is considered that if it can be passed it would be a good thing for the parties concerned. The East India Loans (Railways and Irrigation) Bill is a Money Bill dealing with irrigation and railways in India. Lord Peel is anxious to get this measure before the recess. There is also the Army and Air Force (Annual) Bill, which expires in the natural course of events on April 30, and, lastly, there is the Electricity (Supply) Bill. I am not sure whether noble Lords desire to discuss it on the Third Reading—I understand that the Third Reading will not be opposed—but in that case, and should your Lordships so desire, we could postpone the final stage of that Bill until to-morrow.
§ Moved, That Standing Order No. XXXIX be considered in order to its being suspended for this day's sitting.—(The Earl of Crawford.)
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, so far as I am aware there is no desire to oppose the Electricity (Supply) Bill on the Third Reading. I can, of course, speak only for myself and a few 143 of my friends, but I am not aware that there is any intention to oppose it at that stage. As to whether Amendments may not be moved on the Third Reading I cannot tell until the Report stage is concluded, and I think it would be wiser not to take the Third Reading to-day. If it is necessary to move Amendments on the Third Reading Notice has to be given and it is necessary to put them down. I hope the noble Earl will not propose to take the Third Reading to-day unless it is clear that no Amendment will be moved on Third Reading.
With regard to the other Bills there does not seem to me to be any reason why your Lordships should not agree to the suspension of the Standing Order in respect to all of them, except one—namely, the Unemployment Insurance Bill. There is no doubt that this Bill raises in almost every clause a question of privilege as respecting the other House of Parliament, but it has not been certified by the Speaker as a Money Bill and therefore does not belong to that very special category. I do not pretend to have any knowledge of the Bill, and it would be an impertinence for me to take up your Lordships' time in discussing it. But it is brought to us in a way with which we are very familiar—on the last day, or nearly the last day, of our sittings before adjournment for a recess, with the assurance that great public mischief will accrue unless we consent to a suspension of our Standing Orders and our obligation carefully to explore a measure in order to see whether it requires amendment.
I have often tried to persuade the Government of their lack of wisdom in treating the great instrument of the House of Lords in this way. The House of Lords has many great functions, but its principal function is that of a revising Chamber. The manner in which this Government, perhaps more than any Government—although their predecessors were similarly guilty—have sent Bills up to this House has rendered it impossible for us to exercise those functions of revision. Take the case of this particular Bill, a very elaborate measure, which it is likely your Lordships could improve by way of amendment without actually increasing or decreasing the charge on the taxpayer. That is absolutely impossible. The Government will propose Amendments, and I understand that Lord Malmesbury has also an Amendment down, but your Lordships 144 know nothing about them, whether they should be passed or rejected at this sitting of the House.
With all the appearance of consulting the dignity and usefulness of your Lordships' House the Government are either unwilling or unable to protect the privileges and usefulness of the House of Lords. It would be no use asking your Lordships to disagree with the Government in this respect. Unless they are sensible of the fact that they are not merely Ministers but members of the House, that they are the guardians of its privileges and usefulness, I should not be able to persuade them to take a different view by dividing against the Motion. There is not a large number of members in the House to make it likely that we should succeed; nor do we wish to succeed, if the Government tell us that great public mischief is likely to accrue. I have tried to get the Government to take a different view in this matter and they have given up even making the promise of amendment of their ways. Time after time the same thing happens. The responsibility must rest upon them. One of these days they will regret it. There will be a different Government in power, a Government of which neither they nor I can approve. Then, matters will be forced through your Lordships' House upon the precedent which they are setting up. They will be the first to regret the fact, and upon them must lie the responsibility.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDMy Lords, if I may intervene for one moment only, I acknowledge the justice and the force of much of what has fallen from the noble Marquess. In explanation—perhaps I ought to say in excuse—I merely remind him that the pressure upon Government Departments and upon the House of Commons is very great indeed, and that, with the best will in the world, it is often difficult, and sometimes impossible, to get measures to your Lordships' House at an earlier date. This Bill could have reached this House at an earlier period had not the Government, in another place, week after week and day after day, given way to pressure from all quarters of the House of Commons, first to discuss foreign policy, then to discuss Irish policy, and one thing and another which deflected the Government from its settled programme of legislation and of Estimates. That is substantially the explanation upon one heading. But I must also remind the House 145 that it is not entirely the fault of the House of Commons. Take the Electricity (Supply) Bill. It was presented to your Lordships very early in the session. Its Committee stage was put off for two or three weeks, or it may have been for a longer period, at the instance of your Lordships.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYForgive me, but there was no suggestion of delay, so far as I know. It may have been once postponed—
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI speak in the presence of the noble Viscount. I think it was owing to the Irish Free State (Agreement.) Bill.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDPerhaps I shall not be expected to follow Lord Salisbury. He will he content if I say that I am inclined to differ.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI beg the noble Earl's pardon if I am wrong, but I think I am right.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDThe noble Lord is not entirely right. It may be that he is partly right and that I am partly wrong. We have always been very anxious to send this Bill down to the House of Commons in order that they might be able to deal with it at the earliest moment after the Easter recess. That is why I hope that your Lordships will be willing to conclude the Bill to-day, or else to take the final stage to-morrow. If your Lordships desire to divide against any portion of the Bill to-morrow I appeal to the House to give the Government Notice. Otherwise, the attendance of your Lordships will not be very large and the habitual majority of the Government will be less secure than ever.
I am afraid I must press your Lordships, if you will allow me, to take the concluding stage of the Unemployment Bill to-day. We desire to send that Bill down to the House of Commons with Amendments, and should the House of Commons desire to make observations on those Amendments 146 that stage will obviously have to be taken to-morrow. Subject to the convenience of the House generally, it is suggested that your Lordships should meet at 12 o'clock to-morrow. That is a point upon which I shall consult your Lordships.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.