§ Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
§ Moved, That the House do now resolve i self into Committee.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly.
999§ The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]
§ Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.
§ Clause 5:
§ Registrar and other officers.
§
5.—(1) The registrar, clerks, and other officers of the Mayor's Court and of the City of London Court, shall hold and exercise their several offices in the Court:
Provided that—
§ All compensation so payable and any costs incurred in determining the amount thereof as aforesaid shall be paid by the Common Council out of the Mayor's Court Fund.
§ (2) If the Registrar of the City of London Court at the time of the commencement of this Act resigns within six months after the commencement of this Act, the Common Council shall accept his resignation, and he shall be entitled to compensation in all respects as if his office had been abolished by the Common Council under this section.
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORmoved, at the end of subsection (1), after "the Mayor's," to insert "and City of London." The noble and learned Lord said: This Amendment is necessitated by an oversight.
§
Amendment moved—.
Clause 5, page 3, line 16, after ("Mayor's") insert ("and City of London").—(The Lord Chancellor.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 5, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 6 agreed to.
§ Clause 7:
§ Court moneys and treasurer.
§ 7. All moneys payable under the Acts relating to the Mayor's Court and the City of London Court or under this Act or under rules, regulations, or orders made under any of those Acts, and all moneys standing to the credit of the Mayor's Court Suitors' Fund or the General Fund of the City of London Court respectively shall be paid into one fund to be called "the Mayor's and City of London Court Fund," and all the remuneration of any assistant or additional 1000 judges of the Court and all outgoings and expenses of or connected with the Court shall be paid out of the said fund; and the Chamberlain of the City of London shall be the treasurer of the fund, and shall deal with the fund and account for the same to the Common Council in manner directed by the London (City) Small Debts Extension Act, 1852:
§ Provided that, notwithstanding anything in the Acts relating to the Mayor's Court or the City of London Court, any deficiency arising in the said Mayor's Court Fund in any one financial year shall be chargeable to and made good from the general rate of the City of London made in the financial year following that in which such deficiency arose, and any surplus arising in the said fund shall be applied in aid of such rate.
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORmoved, in the proviso, after "the said Mayor's," to insert "and City of London." The noble and learned Lord said: The observation I made on my first Amendment applies also to this one.
§
Amendment moved—
Clause 7, page 4, line 3, after ("Mayor's") insert ("and City of London").—(The Lord Chancellor).
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 7, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 8
§ Procedure in causes within jurisdiction of High Court.
§
8. For the purposes of all causes and proceedings within the jurisdiction of the Mayor's Court and not within the jurisdiction of a county court, so much of the procedure of the High Court shall be adopted and be in force in lieu of the procedure which at the date of the commencement of this Act was in use in the Mayor's Court as shall by rules, regulations, or orders to be made from time to time under section forty-five of the Mayor's Court of London Procedure Act, 1857, be determined to be applicable to the Mayor's Court.
Provided that the scales of fees and costs now in use in the Mayor's Court shall continue to be in force for all such causes and proceedings as aforesaid, subject to any rules, regulations, or orders to be hereafter made.
§
THE LORD CHANCELLORmoved to omit Clause 8 down to but not including the proviso, and to insert—
All causes and proceedings in the Court shall be commenced by plaint, but in the case of any cause or proceeding which could not, previously to the commencement of this Act, have been brought in the City of London Court, but which could have been brought in the Mayor's Court, any party to such cause or proceeding may in manner prescribed by the rules of the Supreme Court apply by summons for directions as to the subsequent procedure to be adopted and in regard to any such cause or proceeding, the procedure of the Supreme Court shall be adopted and be in
1001
force in lien of the procedure which at the date of the commencement of this Act was in use in the Mayor's Court.
§ The noble and learned Lord said: This is an Amendment about which it is not necessary that I should say much. When the Second Reading of the Bill was before the House my noble and learned friend Lord Buckmaster made some criticisms of a very friendly nature and some suggestions, and I promised that I would attempt to give effect to almost the whole of his suggestions, which seemed valuable in this connection. I have been at some pains since to see if I could give effect to that assurance. and I am not without hope that the Amendment I have put on the Paper carries out in the main the purpose of my noble and learned friend. I have no doubt he has read the Amendment, and it would perhaps be convenient that he should tell me whether, in his opinion, it carries out his purpose.
§
Amendment moved—
Clause 8, page 4, leave out lines 9 to 17 inclusive, and insert the said words.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
§ LORD BUCKMASTERI am sure the noble and learned Lord will not think me intentionally tiresome if I ask him to give a little further consideration to this Amendment. I am afraid the matter deals with legal, technicalities which can never be made pleasant, but I think that in a few sentences I can make them plain. At the present moment the procedure in the County Court is instituted by a plaint, upon which the plaintiff endorses his claim for relief, and no further procedure of any kind is wanted before the hearing, excepting in cases where special technical defences are going to be raised. The result is that the case comes before the Court with the Court entirely unembarrassed by pleadings and the real issue can readily be determined by the Judge and decided. In the High Court, on the other hand, of course, you proceed by your writ, then by a statement of claim and then by a defence, and when your dispute has been formulated in these documents it comes on for hearing before the Court.
This Amendment of the noble and learned Lord proposes that all the proceedings in this amalgamated Court, which will exercise both the jurisdiction of the County Court and the far more extensive jurisdiction of the Mayor's Court, shall be com- 1002 menced by plaints. So far so good; but, in any case where the subject matter of the suit is one that would be outside the jurisdiction of the County Court, the Amendment proposes that either party may apply to the Court for directions as to pleadings and that in such a ease the Court shall direct that pleadings shall be issued. It is that to which I object. I want the noble and learned Lord to consider if he cannot extend it by providing that when application is made the Court may in its discretion direct that pleadings shall be delivered, and not that they must be delivered.
After all, it is not always the question of amount that determines the question of complications. You might very readily, have an amount outside the jurisdiction of the County Court that really does not need pleadings at all, and it is a pity in those circumstances that the Court should be bound to direct that pleadings should be issued, remembering, at the same time, that when that it done you have put into the hands of any litigating party who desires to obstruct and impede the course of justice an opportunity of prolonging the hearing of the case. Times have to be fixed and if the pleadings are not delivered within that time another application for an extended time can be made, and everyone knows that if you have a reluctant litigant there is nothing that enables him so effectively to prolong the period between the issue of the writ and the hearing of the case as what are known as interlocutory proceedings associated with this class of matter. I am most anxious wherever that can be avoided that it should be avoided.
At the present moment I thoroughly believe that there is no system of justice where the preliminary steps are so plain and unambiguous as our own. I feel that very strongly. At the, same time, I feel that there is an innumerable number of cases where even those proceedings might be materially shortened with great advantage to the litigant and increased facility in the administration of justice. I trust the noble and learned Lord will not think me too persistent and that the House will not think I am wearisome in attempting to explain why it is I want the Amendment given further consideration.
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORDiscussions of these highly technical matters in an assembly of laymen must always, as I 1003 think my noble and learned friend will agree, be somewhat unedifying. In fact, I do not read my Amendment as involving pleadings at all. In my judgment, you can go, and without any pleadings at all in such a case, for the direction of the Court. It is in the complete discretion of the Court. I am not sure that it has not escaped the recollection of my noble and learned friend that in the High Court at present, if the direction is given pursuant to relevant orders, you can proceed with litigation without any pleadings at all I have little doubt that I can satisfy my noble and learned friend in a few moments of conversation that this view is well-founded, but I do not want to discuss this across the Table. Our object is fundamentally the same, and between now and Report, if he will discuss it with me, I am sure that if there is any leak in my present proposal we can stop it between us.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 8, as amended, agreed to.
§ Remaining clauses agreed to.