§ Report of Amendments received (according to Order).
§ Clause 12:
§ Repeal of section nine of the principal Act.
§ 12. Section nine of the principal Act (which enables county councils to delegate their powers and duties to district councils) shall be repealed.
§ The MARQUESS OF SALISBURY moved the insertion, at the end of Clause 12, of the following proviso, "Provided that where at the commencement of this Act any powers or duties have been delegated such delegation shall not be affected." The noble Marquess said: Your Lordships may remember that the Committee of your Lordships' House was good enough, upon my Motion, to insert an Amendment which had the effect of withdrawing the power of delegation that had existed under the principal Act, and that Amendment appears in the form of Clause 12 of the Bill now before you. It has since been brought to our notice that this leaves a little ambiguity as to the position of those cases where delegation is already in operation. There are, I think, only five such cases, and as the 696 clause stands there might be some doubt as to whether in those cases delegation was continued or whether it was ipso facto withdrawn, and it appeared to be necessary before the Bill left this House to clear up that ambiguity. I have been in conference with my friends on the subject, and we have come to the conclusion that it is no part of our wish to disturb existing arrangements. Of course, that might have been the view of your Lordships' House—to abolish delegation altogether, not merely in the future but in existing cases as well—but so far as we are concerned we have no desire to disturb existing arrangements. Therefore it is necessary to insert words to make that absolutely clear. Those are the words now upon the Paper which I desire to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Clause 12, page 4, line 36, at end insert (" Provided that where at the commencement of this Act any powers or duties have been delegated such delegation shall not be affected ").—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
THE EARL OF LICHFIELDMy Lords, before my noble friend answers, I should like to say that it would rather appear from the wording of the noble Marquess's Amendment that the delegation which is in existence at the present moment would, under this new proviso, be permanent, and that there would be no possibility of getting it altered at any time. I would therefore ask whether it is not necessary to put in some such words as these, "unless upon the representation of the county council the Local Government Board otherwise order." Perhaps my noble friend will be good enough to tell us whether he thinks I am at all right in my fears, that under the words of the Amendment these delegations could not be rescinded at any time but would remain for always unless some such words as I have suggested were adopted.
§ VISCOUNT PEELMy Lords, I think that the point as to whether or not existing delegation was saved or whether it came to an end immediately after the passing of this Bill was left in some kind of ambiguity, and therefore it is necessary, perhaps, that some such Amendment as the noble Marquess has been good enough to move should be inserted in the Bill. I am advised that there is an ambiguity—not more than an ambiguity—and I think it is just as well that these words should be definitely inserted. I am therefore prepared to accept the Amendment.
697 With reference to the point which the noble Earl has made, he fears, I think, if the clause is passed exactly as it stands with the Amendment of the noble Marquess, that in that event the existing cases of delegation, of which there are only four, might be permanently stereotyped. I have not had very much time to consider the point, but so far as I have been able to go into it I understand that this will not be the case—that it will merely leave the existing cases of delegation exactly where they are, as if this new Act had not been passed. The noble Earl is well aware that delegation is not permanent in any sense. As he knows, there has been during the last six or seven years much more delegation than there is how, and there were many more than the four cases which are all that remain of the original delegations. Therefore I think there is no fear that the position would be stereotyped as the noble Earl suggests. But I certainly will undertake to look further into the point before the Third Reading, and if there is any fear of stereotyping I will take care that the danger is removed.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI need hardly assure your Lordships that if any such arrangement is suggested I will at once agree to it.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.