HL Deb 08 December 1915 vol 20 cc535-42
LORD STRACHIE

My Lords, at the request of the British Dairy Farmers' Association, I rise to call attention to the neglect—I might almost say the culpable neglect—of the War Office to pay compensation within reasonable time to farmers for damage done by military operations. Not only have complaints been made to the British Dairy Farmers' Association, but the Central Chamber of Agriculture last month passed a resolution calling the attention of the War Office to complaints of delay in the payment to farmers of agreed claims for compensation. But notwithstanding that resolution and the fact that farmers themselves have been complaining all over the country, the War Office still neglect to pay this compensation when due. Indeed in some cases they have been very niggardly in settling the claims. That is the more surprising as we know that, speaking generally, the War Office during this war have been spending money in an extravagant manner; in fact, money has flowed like water. I only hope that this neglect by the War Office which I am bringing before the House is not typical of the Department, for if they deal with military matters in the same way as with civilian matters, then one is not surprised at the strictures that have been passed on the conduct of the war in certain directions.

I propose to refer briefly to several cases, but I will give at length one particular case which justifies up to the hilt what I have said. This is a letter from Mr. Harry Cox, a farmer at Bishop's Stortford, dated October 26 last. He writes— In respect to the military occupation of my farm and non-payment of rent, damage, &c., mentioned by me. My fields were first occupied in the middle of August, 1914, by the Staffordshire Yeomanry. They twice stampeded from there, smashing gates, fences, &c. Since that time to now they have been filled with wagons, horses, tents, and drilling grounds. My old established meadows were cut to a sea of mud in the winter, and never will be pastures again until ploughed and resown. Some of my wheat, winter oats, and clover hay was destroyed by wagons and guns. I did harrow, roll, and resow some of my meadows, and just as the mixture was coming through in they came again and have been on it since, and that's all destroyed. One of the fences that was broken down and burnt up by the troops I have had to put up at a cost of £28 10s. by a local builder, as recommended by the War Office land surveyor who called, but no money for it from him. Damage to farm buildings up to Christmas last was assessed by a local builder, by request of the military, at £12 10s.— but again no money. My claim up to Christmas last is £259 10s. and the £12 10s. On all the land now occupied I pay £3 rent per acre and urban rates and taxes, and have no entry on it. Mr. H. V. Macmaster (now lieutenant), War Office land agent, Colchester area, can answer any questions relating to this, for he has been down many times and tells me I shall get settled with soon. He saw all damage here stated, and said it was the worst he had seen. Trusting you will be able to do something for me, for it is absolute ruin if it goes on. Mr. Cox adds this postscript— I have over one dozen gates smashed, the corner of a farm-house knocked down, a cow stabbed by a fourtined fork so she died, and a pony cut on one of their broken bottles and had to be killed, so I do not talk without cause. I think that letter alone will show your Lordships that agriculturists have good ground for complaint at the way in which they have been treated by the War Office. Farmers have had their horses commandeered, they are to have their hay commandeered, and they are to be deprived of the labour on their farms. But farmers are patriotic men and they assented to their horses being taken and to their hay being commandeered. Although the President of the Board of Agriculture is impressing on farmers the necessity of growing more food and maintaining more stock, I have shown the House the way in which they are being treated in this matter of compensation. At the present moment their business is being interfered with in every direction, and when they make claims of this kind, which are admitted, they cannot get payment.

Here is a second case. In July of this year the War Office agreed to pay £202 compensation to Mr. Price, a farmer in Shropshire, and on November 8 they sent him £50, I suppose on account. The third case is that of Mr. Bell, of Buckingham-shire. He wrote to the War Office early in September claiming compensation, but the War Office did not take the trouble to reply. The fourth case is that of Mr. Powell, of Bedfordshire, who had an agreed claim last August of £400. Up to the present time he has received no money, nor even a communication from the War Office. A farmer in Essex has claimed £100 since last June, and has received no compensation at all. He says that the state of his farm was such that he had been obliged to give it up. It seems to me extraordinary that the War Office should not have taken the trouble to investigate these cases. I may be told by my noble friend who will reply that there is an important Commission which deals with this question of damage. There is such a Commission, over which an able lawyer, Mr. Duke, presides; but I imagine that the members are not agriculturists and know nothing about this matter. They deal only with big questions like raids or bombardments. The poor unfortunate agriculturist is neglected by these gentlemen, who know nothing about agriculture and care still less. I suggest to the Paymaster-General whether he might not appeal to the Secretary of State for War to set up a special Committee to deal with agricultural claims, consisting of, say, three members of this House and three members of the other House with himself (Lord Newton) as chairman. I am certain that the noble Lord would be most sympathetic and would very soon see that these claims were dealt with, and we should no longer have this public scandal of unfortunate agriculturists being kept out of their just compensation.

THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD NEWTON)

My Lords, my noble friend has made a somewhat severe general attack upon the policy of the War Office with regard to this question of compensation, and has founded his case upon five or six instances. Had my noble friend given me notice beforehand that he was going to call attention to these particular cases I would have looked into them.

LORD STRACHIE

I did not give my noble friend notice of these specific cases because I stated them merely as examples of the neglect of the War Office in this matter. But I will gladly hand a list of the cases to my noble friend.

LORD NEWTON

It is obviously impossible for me to deal with these particular cases to-day, but naturally I shall be only too pleased to make full inquiries respecting them if my noble friend will furnish me with the necessary information. But I must demur to the statement made by my noble friend that there is general indignation throughout the country against the War Office in regard to this matter. I should like upon this point to appeal to my noble friend beside me, the President of the Board of Agriculture. Surely if the charges of the noble Lord are well founded, remonstrances must have been made in some form or other by my noble friend Lord Selborne on behalf of the Department over which he presides. The noble Lord opposite has informed the House that this indignation is widespread throughout the country. All I can say is that so far as my limited experience goes I have heard nothing whatever of it myself. The War Office disclaim the idea that there have been many complaints, and, as a matter of fact, I am informed that very few complaints have been received on this account during recent months. I have only once had my attention called to this particular question, and that was some months ago by my noble friend Lord Harris who brought up the subject of the grievances of landowners and farmers in Kent. Upon that occasion I left my noble friend completely satisfied that the War Office were not to blame in the matter.

I do not think anybody will dispute my contention that individuals in this country who have a grievance against the War Office are not in the habit as a rule of concealing it. They are much more apt to proclaim the grievance from the housetops, and to cause every attention to be drawn to it in Parliament and elsewhere. With regard to this question of compensation the complaints which have come to the War Office are mainly of a general character, and arise from the original delay in determining the principles on which compensation was to be awarded and in setting up the machinery to carry them out. All this occurred long before I had any connection with the War Office, and therefore I am unable to say why the delay took place. The machinery since adopted by the Government for dealing with this matter, and which has been so disrespectfully spoken of by the noble Lord opposite, is what is known as the Duke Commission. The noble Lord, in the course of his speech, suggested that this was a very inadequate tribunal and that the members of it knew nothing about agriculture, and he even went so far as to suggest that a more appropriate tribunal could be composed from members of this House and the House of Commons, with myself as chairman. I am gratified at the flattery implied by the noble Lord's suggestion, but I cannot conceive that a tribunal of that character would carry greater confidence throughout the country than the Duke Commission. I believe it is universally recognised that this Commission has performed most valuable work, and has greatly expedited all these transactions—

LORD STRACHIE

Not the agricultural ones.

LORD NEWTON

The noble Lord is referring to what happened before the Duke Commission was appointed. At that time, after a settlement had been arrived at there ensued a long wrangle between the War Office and the Treasury, and naturally considerable time was occupied in arriving at a decision. Now all these questions are dealt with most expeditiously by the Duke Commission. That body has given, so far as I have heard, complete satisfaction—

LORD STRACHIE

I quoted a case where the failure to pay compensation dates back more than a year.

LORD NEWTON

This Commission was appointed on March 31 last. It sits continuously, and is, I am informed, well abreast of its work. Up to now the Commission has dealt with 420 individual claims, each of considerable complexity, and has awarded up to the present date something like £90,000, in lump sum payments and over £36,000 in annual payments. Last week the Commission disposed of over fifty cases, and is expected to dispose of a similar number this week. I hope this will go some way to convince my noble friend that at all events there is no undue delay in dealing with these questions.

There are, of course, a large number of cases still under consideration, but many of these have only recently gone to the Commission. My noble friend must also bear in mind that this Commission has to deal not only with the claims of farmers and landowners in respect of damage, but also with claims for direct and substantial loss incurred and damage sustained by reason of interference with property or business in the United Kingdom through the exercise by the Crown of its rights and duties in defence of the Realm. It is perfectly true, however, that the majority of cases brought before the Commission refer to lands. Of course, all cases do not come before this Commission. As my noble friend is probably aware, cases involving a less amount than £100 or, if it is a question of rent, less than a certain sum per month, do not come before the Duke Commission at all, but are dealt with by the General Officer Commanding the district.

The chief causes of the delay, which I repeat is not so serious as the noble Lord contends, are, first, the difficulty in getting claimants to accept the Commission's forms and present methods of assessment; secondly, the fact that all local agents have been very busy in preparing winter quarters for the troops; and, thirdly, that large schemes of defence works and revisions in existing schemes are in progress in many places. The staff of land agents in the employment of the War Office at the beginning of the war has been largely increased, and there are now sixty-seven whole-time and twenty-one part-time agents in their employment. That is all I have to say on this matter. But, if my noble friend likes, I shall be glad to show him a specimen form of the claims and reports thereon, and I think he will realise that, even when an agreement is arrived at, the process is an extremely complicated one which must occupy considerable time. I would repeat, in conclusion, that I shall be most happy to make inquiry into any particular cases of grievance.

LORD STRACHIE

I am obliged to my noble friend for promising to look into these grievances. The cases to which the noble Lord referred are sub judice, but the cases of which I complain are cases where the compensation has actually been awarded and where the War Office has neglected to pay these unfortunate men.

LORD HAVERSHAM

My Lords, I have been a compensation officer ever since these officials were first appointed, and my district is near to the largest camp in the United Kingdom, and probably a larger number of troops go over that area than any part of the country. All I can say is that month after month I have sent in my reports with "nil" upon them, there having been no claims. Sir Archibald Hunter himself wrote to me saying he was glad that I had been able to keep down the amount of claims. As a matter of fact, the farmers had made no claims. The noble Lord opposite (Lord Strachie) spoke of indignation among agriculturists as a whole. We wish to dissociate ourselves entirely from what he said. The farmers in my district have no complaint whatever against the War Office. The Department has done extremely well by us. The only damage that I can recollect at the moment was done to a park paling, and within a day or two the head compensation officer came over, viewed the damage, assessed it within a quarter of an hour, and the money was paid in two or three days. You could not wish for anything more expeditious than that. We have no sort of complaint. As regards the general complaint which the noble Lord made, I would point out that although it is necessary that farmers should surrender some of their horses, enough horses are left to work the ploughs, and carters are exempt under the scheme of Lord Derby. On the whole, I do not think my noble friend has the slightest right to speak on this account in the name of the whole of the agriculturists of the country. For myself I say, on behalf of my district, that we are greatly indebted to the War Office for the consideration shown in this matter.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (THE EARL OF SELBORNE)

Your Lordships will expect me to say something on this subject. I must endorse what my noble friend behind me (Lord Newton) has said. We at the Board of Agriculture certainly have not received the numerous complaints of which the noble Lord opposite spoke.

LORD STRACHIE

Did you not receive the resolution of the Central Chamber of Agriculture?

THE EARL OF SELBORNE

Yes.

LORD STRACHIE

Was that not enough?

THE EARL OF SELBORNE

It gave no particulars. In the course of the six months during which I have been at the Board of Agriculture there have been complaints, but I could not possibly call them numerous. And at the meetings that I have addressed throughout the country, at which I have met a great number of farmers and have had every conceivable subject brought to my notice, this particular grievance has never been mentioned. I do not for a moment dispute that these cases exist. I have not the knowledge which would enable me to say that they do not. But I am sure they cannot exist to the extent my noble friend opposite thinks. If this grievance of the nonpayment of just claims extending over many months, and even over a year, had been as common as the noble Lord fears, I am convinced that my attention would have been drawn to it by one or other of my very numerous correspondents. When the resolution of the Central Chamber of Agriculture, to which the noble Lord alluded, was sent to me I communicated at once with the War Office; and I have never omitted to communicate with the War Office on the subject of any complaint made to me. All I am saying to the noble Lord is that the number of specific complaints on this head which have been lodged at the Board of Agriculture have not been numerous.