§ LORD HENEAGEMy Lords, I rise to ask His Majesty's Government in how many counties in England the importation of cattle from Ireland is prohibited, and from which counties the Minister for Agriculture has received approval of his relaxation of the restrictions in regard to the importation of Irish cattle into England; and whether considering the admitted increase of the foot-and-mouth disease in Ireland and the almost unanimous refusal of the local authorities to admit Irish cattle within their county areas the Minister of Agriculture will now consider the advisability of revoking the objectionable Order and thereby relieve England from the considerable risk involved in the transit of cattle from Ireland without any advantage and against the general wish of those responsible for local government in the different counties of England.
THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY TO THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (LORD LUCAS)My Lords, thirty-three administrative counties out of fifty-one have prohibited the importation of cattle from Ireland; the remaining eighteen have made no regulations to that effect. The noble Lord asks from which counties my right hon. friend has received approval of his relaxation. If by that he means official approval from the local authorities concerned, I do not know that he has received any. On the other hand, I think you may take it that the eighteen administrative counties who have not applied these restrictions have at any rate expressed a tacit approval of the relaxation. As far as unofficial approval is concerned, I can assure the noble Lord that my right hon. friend is overwhelmed with masses of it, which come in by every post.
As to the latter part of the noble Lord's Question, I would like to point out that what he calls the almost unanimous refusal of these local authorities is, in view of the figures I have given, hardly an accurate statement of the case. I can only say, with regard to that, that we are not prepared to revoke the Order, because in our opinion nothing has occurred to alter materially the situation since the time when we first decided to put the Order into force. This whole question has, I think, been prejudiced to an undue degree by somewhat exaggerated assertions on both sides. This is essentially not a case where you can 897 marshal an overwhelming array of facts on one side or on the other. It is a case where you have to proceed with the greatest caution, where you have to weigh the risk with the utmost care, and on the balance of possibilities and of probabilities you have to decide your course. Therefore any action taken does require the sanest and coolest judgment, which is not always applied in this particular case.
When one is considering what measures can be taken one cannot leave out of sight the magnitude of the interests that are at stake. I do not want to refer especially to the case of Irish farmers, who are suffering very materially from this prohibition, because I am responsible primarily for the interests of British farmers, but I think that is an aspect of the case which this House at any rate cannot afford to disregard. When you consider the position from this side of the Channel, the figures of the export of store cattle are alone sufficient to show how big the interests are. Out of the 950,000 store cattle that were exposed for sale in Great Britain last year no fewer than 540,000 of those cattle were of Irish origin.
§ LORD HENEAGEIn Great Britain?
§ LORD HENEAGEMy Question had reference to England only.
LORD LUCASI have not the figures for England only, but the majority of these cattle come to England. Not only is that a very large importation, but this is the time of year when the importation is at its greatest. Yet during the months of September, October, and November, when in a normal year 200,000 store cattle would come into this country, it will probably be found this year that by the end of November the number will not be more than 4,000 or 5,000; at the present moment it is something like 2,000. That is a ridiculously small number, and that in a year, too, when in a great many parts of the country there is an exceptional amount of feed and therefore a great demand for store cattle. That shows sufficiently what the size of this trade is and the seriousness of the interests involved.
Then you conic to a question which is more important still—the question of the risk. Far be it from me to try and make out that there is no risk. You cannot say 898 there is no risk. The great problem is to try and ascertain what the degree of risk is, because this is essentially a question in which the degree of the risk is everything. There is one important fact with regard to that—namely, that from July 8 (the day on which we began to remove the restrictions against Irish cattle and allowed stock to come into this country) up to the date when the most recent figures are available 440,000 head of live stock have come to this country and there has not been one single case of foot-and-mouth disease among them, though they were all subjected to the most careful veterinary examination. Then you have to consider the nature of the safeguards which are applied. These animals have to be quarantined for fourteen days at the place of landing, and removed therefrom by licence of an inspector of the Board of Agriculture to premises in which they have to be isolated for twenty-one days. Further, all animals have to be examined in Ireland before shipment, store cattle have to be accompanied by a declaration of their place of origin, and there is a special examination of the mouth of each beast, so that you have what in our opinion are restrictions and safeguards sufficient to remove, I will not say the whole of the risk, but a very great amount of the risk.
In view of the facts I have quoted it is our opinion—and it is an opinion that we have arrived at after most carefully weighing all possible circumstances and all probabilities, and which I would like to say we have arrived at with no pressure put upon us by any outside body whatever—that the risk, such as it is, is not sufficient to justify the entire exclusion of Irish store stock. We have done what we always do in cases of outbreaks of disease. When the severity of the outbreak begins to decrease or when it becomes more strictly localised we begin to relax gradually the restrictions. That is what has happened in the present case, and we hope to be able to continue to relax them. There are some local authorities which disapprove of the course we have taken and have not availed themselves of the relaxation, but I do say most emphatically that it is our opinion that there is not sufficient risk to justify us in refusing to let those counties have Irish store stock which want to have them and testify to that by not putting in force these prohibitive restrictions.