HL Deb 05 June 1891 vol 353 cc1707-9

On Report of Amendments,

LORD HERSOHELL

said: My Lords, there is a question which I should like to ask the noble Lord who has charge of this Bill with regard to a matter to which my attention has been called. Under the 16th section of the Trustee Savings Bank Act, 1863, there was power to make what were called "special investments." The 10th section of this Bill puts certain restrictions upon special investments being so made, and the last sub section (i), of the clause is this— The power to make special investments shall not be exercised by any bank unless the bank has exercised the power before the 20th November, 1890. My attention has been called by the Trustees of an important savings bank to the fact that under the existing Statute, and in accordance with their own Rules, they have made special investments subsequent, and very shortly, I believe, subsequent to that date; and they do not see why that hard and fast line should be drawn at the 20th Novem- ber, 1890, and why the time fixed should not be "after the passing of this Act." Of course, it is reasonable enough to make any regulations you please to come into force after the passing of an Act which it is thought expedient to make, but it does not seem reasonable to draw a line which is not drawn by the passing of the legislation, and to say here that all banks which may not before this-arbitrary date have made these special investments shall not only be under restriction in making them in future, but shall not be authorised in having done so under the existing Statute, and under their rules. I do not know what the noble Lord may be able to state as to what reason there may be for fixing this particular date.

THE SECRETARY TO THE BOARD OF TRADE (Lord BALFOUR of BURLEIGH)

; The reason for the clause is this: The power of making special investments has not in all respects worked very satisfactorily, and investments have been made in securities and in ways which are not properly, in the opinion of the Treasury and of the National Debt Commissioners, in pursuance of the powers and within the proper province of bankers—I mean investments which cannot be quickly realised with certainty at the prices paid for them when the investments were made. It is thought-that no encouragement should be given to those investments in future. The object of putting in this date—the 20th November last year—was that any bank which had then exercised the power should not be arbitrarily interfered with; and the reason for not accepting the suggestion made by the noble and learned Lord, and letting the time run up to the passing of this Act, is the fear that banks which have not found the necessity of making these investments in the past might take alarm at the proposal to take the power away from them, and for the purpose of keeping the power might make investments between the bringing in and the passing of the Bill. The idea was that any bank which has not done it within the last seventeen years to' the 20th November, 1890, is not prejudiced if the power is taken away as at that date. There is, of course, no Amendment actually before the House, and I sincerely hope the noble and learned Lord will not press an Amendment of that kind, to do away with the period which has been fixed, without very careful consideration.

LORD HERSCHELL

I do not know when this Bill was brought in, but I should have thought it is not likely that banks would have rushed purposely into these investments because this Bill had been brought in. In fact, it was not noticed by the officials of this particular bank to which I have referred, until it was too late for any steps to be taken in the House of Commons, that there was any such prohibition. It was in consequence of that that they were led to make an appeal, which has induced me to make this intervention. I will wait for the Report to be received, but I shall then ask to have leave to move the Amendment I have proposed.

Report received.

LORD HERSCHELL

I propose now to amend Clause 10, page 6, by leaving out (" 20th day of November, 1890,") in order to insert the words (" passing of this Act.")

THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of SALISBURY)

I think it would be better, as we have no difficulty in this House at the stage of Third Reading, if the noble and learned Lord would give us notice of his Amendment. I should like to inquire a little more about this. I confess it sounds to me a very strange provision, and I should like to know a little more about it.

LORD HERSCHELL

Then I propose to move it on Third Reading.

Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.