HL Deb 23 February 1891 vol 350 cc1342-3

House in Committee (according to Order).

Clause 1.

LORD HERSCHELL

This clause proposes to enable a person who has a limited interest in land to give or sell or exchange it for the purpose of erecting upon it an intermediate school, or a covered market or buildings. As regards remaindermen, I think sufficient protection is afforded by saying that the gift or sale is not to be made without their consent. But there is one point that needs consideration. The section provides, that if such a conveyance is made and the party to it is a minor or a lunatic, the conveyance is not to be made unless the guardian or Committee of such a person should concur. So far as it deals with sale or exchange I do not see any objection—I think that is enough; but if it is a gift which may be disposing of very valuable property of the infant or lunatic, inasmuch as it applies to land up to the extent of an acre, I doubt whether it is a sufficient safeguard that the guardian or Committee should concur, because it is really practically enabling the guardian or Committee to make a gift of the infant's or lunatic's land without consideration, no doubt for the public purpose of a school or market buildings. It may be doubted whether the mere consent of the guardian or Committee is a sufficient protection. I would suggest that in that case the intervention of the Court should be invoked, and that the gifts should only take effect (where it is a gift of property of a minor or a lunatic) with the sanction of the Court. Of course there may be cases where it would be for the benefit of the estate of the infant or lunatic to do this if it were advantageously and properly done, but I think the Court would not interfere in such cases; and, on the other hand, it would not be in the power of the guardian or Committee of the infant to make improperly a gift of what might be a valuable portion of his property.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY

If the noble Lord means to include the guardian who is probably the father of the next person in remainder, it seems to me hardly worth while to ask your Lordships to pass such a Bill, because in the case of sale and exchange Lord Cairn's Act is ample; but it is to avoid the difficulties of sale and purchase that I would ask your Lordships to pass this measure doing, in the case of sites for intermediate schools and markets, the same thing as was done in the case of places of public worship and burial ground sites. In the case of the Committee of a lunatic, I have no objection that the sanction of the Court should be taken; but in the case of a minor who, probably, is nearly of age, it would, it appears to me, make the Bill perfectly useless.

LORD HERSCHELL

I do not think my noble Friend sees the point. The minor might be only two years old—of course there is no limitation of age—and this would enable the guardian to make really a gift of what might be a valuable portion of the minor's property.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY

You have done it in the Places of Public Worship Sites Act. Why should you not do it in other cases?

LORD HERSCHELL

I do not propose the Amendment now; it will require a little careful framing. For instance, the Court whose sanction is required would, in the case of a minor, be the High Court; and in the case of a lunatic, the authority would be the Lords Justices in Lunacy.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

You can put it in when the Bill is before the Standing Committee.

LORD HERSCHELL

Yes.

Bill reported without amendment; and re-committed to the Standing Committee.