DWELLINGS FOR THE WORKING CLASSES. (Hansard, 14 August 1890)

§ THE EARL OF WEMYSS
I move for the Return which stands on the Paper in my name.

§ LORD DE RAMSEY
I regret it is not considered advisable to grant the Return asked for by the noble Earl, and I will call attention, in case they may have escaped the noble Earl's notice, to the Returns which have been already presented to Parliament. I allude to Nos. 287 and 275. The Roturn which the noble Earl asks for would be very laborious and very expensive, and considering that a new Act has been passed this Session, and considering also that there is a large amount of information to be derived from the two Returns I have already referred to, I hope the noble Earl may think well to withdraw his application for this Return.

§ THE EARL OF WEMYSS
Of course, if Her Majesty's Government, or the Official Department connected with this subject, decline to give the Return, it would be vain of me to attempt to ask your Lordships to grant it. It is possible that, on reference to the Papers to which the noble Lord has referred, they may give a portion of the information which I ask sufficient to enable one to call attention to this important subject. When my noble Friend gives as an official reason for not granting this Return that a new Consolidating Act has been recently passed, I must tell him that it is really in consequence of that that I have thought it necessary to ask for full information in reference to this question—the housing of the working classes at the public expense, for that is what it comes to. At present, under existing Acts, municipalities are authorised to clear away blocks of houses which are insanitary, and to build others in their place. I myself hold very strongly that the action of municipalities and the State upon this question, should be negative simply; that they should say "These buildings are unhealthy, and cannot be let or inhabited," but that they should leave it to private enterprise to build new houses. Private enterprise has, in this direction, been so successful hitherto, that a dividend, I believe, of 5 per cent. is paid upon buildings of this kind; whereas, on the other hand, I believe that all municipal trading does not pay, and it would be found, if a clean debtor and creditor account were laid on the Table of your Lordships' House, showing on one side the cost of clearing away old buillings, erecting others, and letting 944 them; and, on the other, the result of the letting; that there was a very considerable deficit which falls very heavily upon the ratepayers, many of whom are really worse off than well-to-do artisans receiving high wages, yet exempted from Income Tax, and for whom these buildings are provided. However, as the Return has been declined, and no doubt the ground alleged would be sufficient that the information is already before the House, I propose, during the recess, to go thoroughly into the matter, and if it appears desirable to do so, to bring the whole subject before your Lordships' consideration on the re-assembling of Parliament.

§ LORD DE RAMSEY
May I call the noble Earl's attention to a few facts, as he proposes to re-introduce this subject in another Session? First of all, that the Return he asks for is unlimited as to time; and, again, that it covers all cases where Local Acts have given exceptional powers, as well as cases under the general Acts applicable in each of the three Kingdoms. Again, a very important item for the noble Earl's attention is this: he desires a Return of the accommodation provided. The accommodation provided would not, except in very rare cases, be under the supervision of the Local Authorities, and in most cases, therefore, the Return which the noble Earl asks for would not come within the knowledge of the Local Authorities. Lastly, in the Return the noble Earl asks for particulars of the "net annual income." It is surely open to doubt what net annual income is referred to, whether it is that of the Local Authorities themselves, or, where they have sold it or let it to others, whether it is that of the lessees or the purchasers. Perhaps the noble Earl would make it a little more explicit, and state what he means by the "net annual income." If the noble Earl pursues this subject next Session I can assure him that I shall give it my best attention.

§ THE EARL OF WEMYSS
Of course I withdraw my Motion, and I wish merely to add that I am very much obliged to my noble Friend for the suggestions he has made. My object is to get complete information on all points necessary to enable the public to arrive at a just opinion as to how this system of building 945 houses for the working classes in town and country—and I mean by in town in the different Municipalities as well as the Metropolis—answers. This Return, I may say, as to form, was drawn up by a person who is thoroughly conversant with the subject, to whom I spoke about it. I told him what I wanted, and asked him to draw up a form which he thought would give me the information I required. Before next Session I will, however, follow the noble Lord's advice, and look thoroughly into the matter.

§ LORD NORTON
I would make one suggestion to the noble Earl, that if he moves for the Return next year he should draw a distinction between authorities dealing with buildings under Local Acts and those under General Acts. There is a very material difference. Under the General Acts, Local Authorities can only purchase houses which are unfit for human habitation, and after rebuilding they are bound to sell or part with them within 10 years. They cannot retain them in their own possession. In my own neighbourhood I know that restriction has been removed in a Local Act. In Birmingham the Local Authority by this means possesses a considerable property in the town; so that in course of time they will be able to dispense to a great extent with rates, and carry on the business of the town by the rents of the houses in their own possession. That is not only a material difference between the action under the General Acts and Local Acts, but a dangerous power for any Corporations or Municipal Authorities to acquire, that they should become landlords to such an extent in towns as to acquire complete political as well as municipal power by the command of so many appointments.

§ THE EARL OF WEMYSS
I will certainly act upon the suggestion of my noble Friend. He has opened up a vista of further danger than I believed existed in this matter.

Name of Authority.	Statute under which Land acquired.	Cost of Land and all Sub-sidiary Interests, but excluding Legal Expenses.	Cost of Erecting Buildings, excluding Legal Expenses.	Legal Expenses.	Total Cost.	Accommodation provided.	Amount Realised by Sale of Land.	Annual Rental derived from Property not sold.	Expenses of Administration.	Other Outgoings.	Net Annual Income.
No of Rooms.	No of Families.