COAL MINES, &c. REGULATION BILL. (Hansard, 7 September 1887)

§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (Viscount CROSS),
in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, said, he took that opportunity of tendering his own thanks, and those of the Government and the country, to the Royal Society for the trouble they had taken in the matter of coal mines. In the year 1879, he had the honour, as Home Secretary, to ask them whether they would join, or send some of their members to assist, the Royal Commission which was then appointed for the purpose of seeing how accidents in mines could best be prevented. The Royal Society met that appeal in the most handsome way, and several of their most distinguished members served on the Commission. The labours of the Commission lasted for a period of six years; they went minutely into a long series of experiments, and while he was quite sure the results of those experiments would tend greatly to the safety of life and the prevention of accidents, it was satisfactory to know that they had also added very much to their own scientific knowledge, because he believed the members of the Commission all candidly admitted that in the course of their investigations they made several discoveries about gases and other matters that were absolutely unknown to them before. The result had been that a great many of their recommendations had been embodied in that Bill. He would only mention two matters to show how necessary it was that an inquiry should take place. The first was that it seemed to have been discovered in the course of the inquiry that what miners had hitherto been in the habit of look- 1523 ing upon as one of the great sources of safety, was in reality one of the great sources of danger—namely, the safety lamp, which, in certain respects, had been rendered unsafe with the improved methods of ventilation, causing a greater current of air to run through the mines. Another discovery they made, which he believed also would have a great effect in the future safety of life—namely, that a great many accidents happened, under certain conditions, not so much from the gases which came from the coal, as from the dry coal dust that pervaded all parts of the mine. He did not think it would be wise or necessary to trouble their Lordships with any explanations in detail of the mere machinery for carrying on the work of the mines which were laid down in the Bill. He would only say that he believed the Act of 1872, which was passed by Lord Aberdare, had worked very great good, and was in itself an excellent Act; but an experience of 17 years had shown that it required amendment in various details, and where possible all those amendments were contained in the present Bill. He begged to move its second reading.

§ LORD BRAMWELL
said, he did not rise for the purpose of objecting to the second reading, but he had received a letter which he felt bound to read. It was from the executors of Colonel Hargreaves, of Burnley, Habergham, and Marsden Collieries. It was as follows: — We trust your Lordship will excuse us calling your attention to a clause in the Coal Mines Regulation Bill now before the House of Lords, which, if passed into law, would most prejudicially affect the colliery proprietors of this district and also the colliers themselves, seeing that it would inevitably lead to a reduced output of coal. The Bill, as passed by the Commons, prohibits the payment of colliers by measure, and provides that henceforth they shall be paid by weight (except in the case of collieries employing only 30 men underground, when a Secretary of State may under certain circumstances grant exemption from weighing). The effect of this would be materially to reduce the output at large collieries, such as exist in the Burnley district. Under the existing Act of 1872, section 17, colliers are to be paid by weight, unless the mine is exempted by a Secretary of State. The whole of the collieries in this district are exempted, and the colliers are and always have been paid by measure. No disputes occur, there is no confiscation of tubs, and the best feeling exists between masters and 1524 men. The clause in the Bill appears to be the outcome of trade union agitation— he did not say it was any the worse for that— but, as the colliers in the Burnley district are non-unionists, the delegates have no right to interfere. He need not trouble their Lordships with any more, except to say that the remaining part of the letter suggested that the clause should be altered so as to continue the exemptions which at present existed. This was a point on which their Lordships were legislating in the dark. When there was any interference with private contract a reason should be given, and at present their Lordships were destitute of any. It was, he submitted, a matter deserving of consideration, because it seemed a strange thing that where the employer, the employed, and the Secretary of State were all content with the arrangement, nevertheless it should not be allowed except where the employed were fewer than 20.

§ VISCOUNT CROSS
said, he would convey to the Secretary of State for the Home Department what had fallen from the noble and learned Lord. He had an Amendment to propose to-morrow on that particular clause, and suggested that then would be the most convenient time to consider the point raised by the noble and learned Lord.