HL Deb 28 July 1887 vol 318 cc293-9
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN

, in rising to move— That, in the opinion of this House, it is unjust and also inexpedient to continue to compel individuals to discharge the duties and office of high sheriff at their own expense; and, further, that the reasons which formerly made it desirable that the high sheriff should he possessed of sufficient land within the county to answer to the Crown and to the people have now ceased to exist, said, the grievance was real and substantial; and he believed there was a general feeling in their Lordships' House in favour of his Motion. Considering the circumstances attending the possession of property in recent years it was high time that this subject was put before Parliament. Their Lord- ships were so fully acquainted with the duties of High Sheriffs that it was needless for him to enumerate them. The office was one of high antiquity, and used, at one time, to be of considerable value. At the present day there was not a single High Sheriff who, on being appointed to the office, knew what his duties were, or who, if he know them, was competent to perform the greater part of them. Many of his duties were discharged, at the present time, by the Under Sheriff. The duties of a High Sheriff at the present day were practically limited to attending the Judges at the Assizes and presiding at elections of Members of Parliament. It might perhaps be considered by some persons that the duty of attending upon the Judges was a trivial matter, but he believed it was a duty which was especially burdensome. The cost to the Sheriff was seldom less than £400, and in one or two cases—as in the County of York—it had amounted to nearly £2,000. Again, if a Sheriff were so unlucky as to hold the office when a General Election took place, he had to incur considerable additional expense. Referring to the mode in which Sheriffs were selected, he expressed his belief that many of the excuses which were submitted were of the most sorrowful and mournful character. In his opinion, it was wrong that individuals should be called upon to make very unpleasant and minute statements with regard to their private affairs. In conclusion, the noble Earl formally moved his Resolution.

Moved to resolve— That, in the opinion of this House, it is unjust and also inexpedient to continue to compel individuals to discharge the duties and office of high sheriff at their own expense; and, further, that the reasons which formerly made it desirable that the high sheriff should be possessed of sufficient land within the county to answer to the Crown and to the people have now ceased to exist."—(The Earl of Camperdown.)

THE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Viscount CRANBROOK)

said, it was very natural that the noble Earl should have brought this subject before their Lordships, who were disinterested spectators of those who served the office of High Sheriff in different parts of the country. No one could become cognizant of the excuses sent by gentlemen with respect to their property, their age, and the circumstances in which they were placed without being shocked by the fact that men should be driven to reveal all those circumstances in order to excuse themselves from a gratuitous office, and an onerous office, undertaken for the benefit of the public at large. At the same time it was a great office, and an office of great antiquity, and in some cases it was a coveted honour, and when hereditary in Westmorland. The Shrievalty was regarded as one of the chief dignities of the county. The honour then was not burdensome, as the population was small, and the duties light. But it was a different thing in other and specially neighbouring ones. Why, for instance, should a man be appointed against his will to be High Sheriff of Lancashire? He would have to conduct 29 elections, and would, in consequence, be put to great expense. Then he would have to attend the Judges, and it should be remembered that Assizes were now held much move frequently than in days gone by. In Yorkshire, again, the High Sheriff had to make arrangements for the elections in all the three Ridings. He did, however, not think it would be convenient in the then condition of their Lordships' House, so few Members being present, that they should vote the condemnation of the Shrievalty system which had existed since the reign of Edward II., and probably much earlier. He would therefore suggest that his noble Friend should at the beginning of next Session move for a Committee to inquire into the question of the Shrievalty of counties and all matters connected with it. His own Predecessor in Office (Earl Spencer) sent a circular, in 1882, to all the Sheriffs in the country asking confidentially for a return of the expense to which they were put. A large number made a return, though many neglected to do so, and from that return he could state generally how extremely burdensome this office was to some people. He thought, however, that of late years the excuses offered by persons placed on the list were fewer; and the reason of that was that the High Sheriff had in recent years been more careful to select those persons who were best able to serve. On the whole, he did not think that any more adequate means of selecting gentlemen connected with counties could be devised than that at present in vogue. The Sheriff sent his list to the Judges, and those lists were circulated when the three gentlemen were selected. Then the time came when the excuses were fairly considered, and, as far as he knew, in most instances where they were reasonable they were allowed. He ventured to suggest to his noble Friend that he should not now proceed to carry a Resolution so peremptory and decisive; but he felt so strongly that he had made out a case for investigation, that he thought it very desirable that there should be a Committee to take into consideration all the circumstances connected with the Shrievalty.

LORD BRAMWELL

said, he was inclined to think that the expense was very much within the control of the Sheriffs themselves. They might perform the duties of the office expensively or not, as they thought fit. He thought it was extremely probable that the two most expensive counties were Lancashire and Yorkshire, and yet he was absolutely certain that the greatest regret would be felt in both those counties if this Resolution were carried into effect. For in those two counties there were numbers of wealthy persons desirous of the office; in fact, he doubted very much whether this Resolution, if carried, would not create greater displeasure than pleasure, He hoped their Lordships would remember that this was a most important office, in that the High Sheriff was responsible for carrying into effect the sentences of the Courts of Assize and had other most responsible duties to perform. More than that, he took precedence of the Lord Lieutenant and of everyone in the county, with the exception, of course, of Royalty and those who represented the Queen—the Judges—and that was very pleasing to the minds of many who filled the office. It was part of the Constitutional Law of this country that every man was bound to render service to the State according to his means and abilities—and gratuitously. Men must take upon themselves the office of constable, guardians of the poor, and jurors, and without payment; and why should gentlemen—men of property—not be called upon to render service to the Queen? He had, during his time on Circuit, met over 200 High Sheriffs, and he had always received the greatest kindness and courtesy from them. It perhaps might be thought that he had got some liking for High Sheriffs on account of the dignity they were supposed to add to the state of the Judges of Assize. For his part he owned, though he was in a minority among his brethren, that he did not think the dignity of Her Majesty's Judges was augmented by the attendance of the High Sheriff at the Assizes. With regard to this Motion there were two things which he desired to impress upon the House—first, that the expense and trouble to which High Sheriffs were put were not so great as was ordinarily supposed; and, secondly that the office of High Sheriff was in itself an object of desire, and ambition to many persons, and that its gratuitous performance was in accordance with the ordinary law of the country, by which all individuals were bound to render certain services to the State without fee or reward.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HALSBURY)

was only anxious to say that if the question raised by the noble Earl was to be decided that night upon his Motion there was a great deal against it in the arguments of the noble and learned Lord who had just sat down. But as the question was to be referred to a Committee everything the noble and learned Lord had said was in aid of such an inquiry. It could not be denied that exceptional responsibilities had been laid upon those who were selected to serve the office of High Sheriff. We had multiplied the number of circuits and had greatly added to the number of elections in each county. Further, every Judge who went down to the country to try Election Petitions was received by the Sheriff with the same state as if he were on Assize. But in the same proportion as both the trouble and expense of the office had been increased had its dignity been diminished. They had withdrawn from the office of Sheriff a great deal that formerly constituted its dignity. He did not deny that there were many persons who still coveted the office; but when the noble and learned Lord justified the continuance of the office in its present form as being one of those services which every individual was bound to render gratuitously to the State, and referred to the office of constable as another example, he was bound to say that the illustration was a little unfortunate. The existence of the Metropolitan Police and of the police throughout the country was altogether inconsistent with adherence to the principle to which the noble and learned Lord had referred. If in these days they trusted the performance of the office of constable solely to those who were bound to perform it gratuitously he was afraid that the peace would not be well preserved. Modern times had caused changes to be made which went to affirm the proposition that an inquiry should be made into what were alleged to be serious grievances with regard to the performance of the office of Sheriff. He was of opinion that Sheriffs were not always the best informed as to what their expenses were; for instance, certain allowances were made from the Treasury, and it had been the custom for the Under Sheriffs to appropriate a certain amount of these emoluments as their perquisites. It would, he thought, be for the interest of High Sheriffs that they should inquire a little into these matters. In his opinion, the noble Earl had performed a good work by bringing this subject forward.

LORD HARLECH

said, he fully concurred in what had been said as to the hardship of being compelled to serve this office. On one occasion he had the misfortune to be made High Sheriff in the year that a General Election took place. He was desirous of standing for his county, but through being returning officer and being unable to find anyone else to undertake the post he was unable to become a candidate.

LORD HERSCHELL

said, that the proposal of the noble Viscount opposite was an exceedingly good one, and he thought would be extremely useful. Whatever view might be taken as to the expediency of retaining the office of Sheriff he could not think that there was any justification in principle for adding to its burdens. Owing to electoral changes the office of High Sheriff had become much more burdensome, and he did not see why the expense of changes which were thought desirable in the public interest should be thrown upon the High Sheriffs. Whatever view might be entertained as to the general question, great good would be done by an investigation into the present duties and burdens of the office.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN

said, that although no single fact or state- ment in the Resolution had been questioned in the slightest degree, yet, as the noble Viscount had expressed his determination, he should not divide the House upon the Motion. He must be content with the inquiry which the noble Lord offered, and with the conviction that his Resolution, although not passed, had met with the almost unanimous assent of the House. He begged leave to withdraw his Motion.

Motion (by leave of the House) withdrawn.