HL Deb 21 July 1887 vol 317 cc1571-3
THE EARL OF GALLOWAY

, who had the following Motion on the Paper:— That the prayer of the Earl of Mar in his petition presented on the 27th ultimo, for an investigation into the connection between the Mar estates and the ancient Mar dignity, with the view to obtain an unprejudiced re-hearing in a court of law, of his right to the estates of Mar, be granted. said that, not having been able to bring his Motion on in the House at the conclusion of Tuesday's Sitting he put it down for to-night, and he could not now proceed with it, owing to the number of Bills which had since been placed on the Notice Paper which took precedence of it. He begged to give Notice that he would postpone the Motion till Tuesday, the 2nd August. He could not put it down for an earlier date, as until then he should have to be in Scotland in consequence of official duties. He wished to make an appeal to the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, in the absence of the Prime Minister, to prevent any Government Bills being put down for that date which would necessarily have precedence of it. He thought he had some claim to this indulgence, as he could have brought on the Motion on Monday, but he gave way in order that the Government might bring on the Criminal Law Amendment (Ireland) Bill.

THE EARL OF SELBORNE

said, he thought it his duty to inform the noble Lord, that if the Motion was ever made he should be obliged to submit to the House that it ought not to be entertained. Not only was it a private matter which could only be dealt with judicially by the House, but it was in regard to property which had been the subject of solemn litigation, and of a decision by the Court of Session, affirmed by their Lordships 10 years ago, as the Court of Final Appeal. There was a Standing Order of the House, that matters pending, or which at any former time had been pending before the House in its judicial capacity, should be referred to the Committee of Appeals. This Notice was in direct contravention of that Standing Order. When he saw the Notice on the Paper it occurred to him that it was not one that should be permitted to be debated, as it might lead to serious results. He was not in favour of one person more than another in the matter. With him it was merely a matter of principle. It seemed to him that no more illegal or unconstitutional Notice was ever put upon the Table of this House. If the Motion came before their Lordships, he should move that the Question be not put, as the most respectful way of dealing with it.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HALSBURY)

said, that he must refer the noble Earl (the Earl of Galloway) to the Prime Minister for an answer to his question.

THE EARL OF GALLOWAY

said, that he had put the Motion on the Table of the House several times, and his only motive for postponing it was to suit the convenience of the House. Of course, after the statement which had been made by the noble and learned Lord (the Earl of Selborne), he would consider whether it would be right on his part to proceed with his Motion. But it would have been much better if the noble and learned Lord had heard the grounds on which he made the request. He was sure that his noble and learned Friend would not take exception to anything which he would have to say. He was simply going to urge that the prayer of the Petition which had been presented should be answered. He had nothing whatever to do with the Petition itself, and he did not attempt to approve of all its terms. The noble Duke, who had first placed the Motion on the Paper, was not able to be present, and had asked him to undertake it. He did not feel inclined to say "No." If he did not bring it on, it would appear as if he were running away from what he had undertaken. He hoped the noble and learned Lord would not think it was out of any disrespect to him if he ventured to put the Motion down in order that he might have an opportunity of explaining the special grounds why, without going into the judicial or legislative questions, it would not be out of reason to entertain the Motion. He would, therefore, ask their Lordships' attention to the subject, and hoped the Prime Minister would prevent Government Bills interfering with its consideration on the 2nd August.

THE PEIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of SALISBURY)

said, he did not think his noble Friend was aware of the state of the Orders of the House. On Tuesdays or Thursdays any Bill, Government or not, that was put down took precedence of all Notices of Motion, and if the Government was to abstain from putting down Bills they could have no security that the noble Lord's Motion would be considered. Why should not the noble Lord put down his Motion for Monday 1st instead of Tuesday 2nd August?

THE EARL OF GALLOWAY

It will be Bank holiday.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

There is nothing to prevent us sitting on that day. It would be an admirable day for such a discussion.

THE EARL OF GALLOWAY

Then I will put the Motion down for Monday the 1st August.

Motion postponed.