HL Deb 11 July 1887 vol 317 cc329-32

Order of the Day for the Third Reading read.

Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a"—(The Lord Chancellor.)

LORD DENMAN

, who had on the Paper a Motion to move that the Bill be read a third time that day six months, said, that, after what had passed on Friday, he might expect, at least, a Teller for his Motion; but having for 33 years addressed the House without a single cheer, and having probably brought on himself ill-will by opposing both the Front Benches of Ministers and Leaders of the Opposition, he did not look for encouragement. He wished he might, without conceit, apply to himself the words of the first Lord Hough-ton— Yet there are some to whom a strength is given, A will, a self-constraining energy, A faith that feeds upon no earthly hope, That never thinks of victory—but content, Rejoicing fights, and, still rejoicing, falls. He must ask leave to withdraw his Motion, and only say "Not-Content."

On Question? Resolved in the affirmative; Bill read 3a accordingly.

On Question, "That the Bill do pass?"

EARL BEAUCHAMP

said, he wished to call the attention of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack (Lord Halsbury) to an Amendment which stood in his name. Section 39 provided, subject to certain exceptions in favour of husband and wife, that on the death of any person intestate real estate should be divisible among the same persons as if it were personal estate. The 4th subsection was to the effect that the section should not apply to the real estate of persons who were infant or lunatic at the passing of the Act, and thenceforward until their death, nor to the estates to which persons who died under age, or who became lunatic before attaining 21, were entitled under will or settlement executed before the commencement of the Act. He desired to amend the clause by excepting the real estate of infants and lunatics altogether from its operation; but he would be glad to hear from the noble and learned Lord upon the Woolsack what he proposed to do before he (Earl Beauchamp) formally moved it.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord SALISBURY)

said, that he had had suggestions made to him from various quarters as to the amendment of this Bill. He had every desire to meet the views which had been expressed on this subject in various quarters of the House, but it was not an easy matter. Having done his best to consider it, he had come to the conclusion that the best way to meet the difficulty was to empower the High Court (Chancery Division) to deal with the matter of the devolution of the real property of intestate lunatics and minors in such way as, in its opinion, would meet the justice of the case. He would, therefore, move an Amendment to effect that object.

Amendment moved, In page 20, line 32, add ("Provided that in any case where but for this provision the real estate of any infant or lunatic would be dealt with in accordance with this section, it shall be lawful for the court, on the application of any member of such infant or lunatic's family, to make such order respecting the devolution of the real estate as the court may think just, having regard to the settlement or will under which the infant or lunatic became entitled and the circumstances of the family and estate."—(The Lord Chancellor.)

LORD HERSCHELL

said, he did not like expressing a decided opinion at a moment's notice; but he must confess that he viewed with some apprehension the suggestion that the Court of Chancery should make a will for a man. He preferred some modification of the proposal of the noble Earl opposite.

LORD BRAMWELL

said, that the whole difficulty might be overcome if, instead of abolishing estates in tail and turning them into estates in fee simple, the tenant in tail were to be empowered to make such a grant or devise as he might make if he had an estate in fee simple.

THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of SALISBURY)

said, that, as the matter was of some importance, it would probably be more satisfactory to the House if further time were given for the consideration of the point. He, therefore, moved the adjournment of the debate.

Moved, "That the Debate be now adjourned."—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)

EARL BEAUCHAMP

suggested that it would be better that the Motion for the passing of the Bill should be withdrawn.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

said, he would withdraw his Motion for the adjournment of the debate.

Motion (by leave of the House) withdrawn.

Further debate on the said Amendment adjourned till To-morrow.