§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSI beg to give Notice that, on Thursday next, I shall move the following Resolution:— 873
That this House is prepared to proceed now with the consideration of the Representation of the People Bill, on the understanding that an humble Address shall be presented to Her Majesty, humbly praying Her Majesty to summon Parliament to assemble in the early part of the autumn for the purpose of considering the Redistribution Bill which Her Majesty's Ministers have undertaken to present to Parliament on the earliest occasion possible.I should explain that the wording of this Resolution, my Lords, is somewhat different, though in sense it is practically the same, as the Resolution which has appeared on the Paper. I think that, perhaps, with your Lordships' permission, I may be allowed to say that I drew up that Resolution without any communication whatever with any Member either of your Lordships' House or the other House of Parliament on either side, and that I at once put it on Saturday morning in the hands of the Clerk of the Parliaments. My object is simply this—to endeavour, after what passed on Friday last, to find some common ground for agreement for the effectual settlement of the question of the reform of Parliament. And if the Resolution appears to either Party of this House or to both not exactly what it should be, I earnestly hope the Leaders of the Parties will be able to come to some common understanding for the peaceful solution of this great question.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I have to protest very earnestly against the inconvenience of the course taken by the noble Earl. Without giving any Notice on Friday night or Saturday morning, he puts on the Paper a Notice cancelling and tearing up the Resolution to which your Lordships came, after great debate and solemn Division, on Tuesday last. Then he fixed his Resolution for to-morrow night. Now, I believe to-day and to-morrow are days on which a great many Peers have engagements elsewhere—the Agricultural Association, for instance—making it a matter of very great inconvenience for them to come down to this House, yet it was necessary, in view of the Notice of the noble Earl, to ask them to alter their engagements. Now, at the last moment, the noble Earl makes another change, and puts it off till Thursday. I can only say that is not the way in which Business is usually conducted in this House. I doubt, moreover, whether the Motion of the noble 874 Earl is in Order. The House has solemnly recorded that, for certain reasons, it will not read the Representation of the People Bill a second time; until that Resolution is formally rescinded and removed from the Journals, it is not competent for any Member of this House to make a Motion that the Bill be read a second time. Therefore, I believe that the Motion is, in fact, informal and disorderly; but I mainly rose for the purpose of protesting against the extreme inconvenience caused by the course which the noble Earl has adopted.
THE EARL OF ROSEBERYI rise for the purpose of putting a Question to the noble Earl the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Earl Granville); but before doing so, I would like to point out that the remarks of the noble Marquess opposite (the Marquess of Salisbury) seem founded on a misconception, for the Notice of the noble Earl on the Cross Benches (the Earl of Wemyss) is not for to-morrow, but Thursday.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYYes; it was originally given on the Paper for Tuesday.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYIt was given for Tuesday. That was the inconvenience in the matter; and now at the last moment the noble Earl puts it off till Thursday. That is partly what I complain of.
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSI made the alteration after consulting with Friends of both Parties. It seemed to us that it would be best to put the Resolution down for Thursday, so that there should be more time to consider it after the meeting of Conservative Members, which, as I believe, is to be held to-morrow.
THE EARL OF ROSEBERYThen I proceed to the point of Order, which will doubtless be settled by a greater authority than myself; but, at the same time, I wish to point that, as I understand it, the Resolution of the noble Earl would not supersede any Resolution that has been arrived at, because it is hypothetical on the second reading of the Representation of the People Bill. Now, that Bill is still down for second reading, and there is nothing, as it appears to me, to prevent your Lordships proceeding to its consideration. But the noble Earl on the Cross Benches wishes 875 to know what the view of the Leaders of the two Parties would be with regard to the matter? What has fallen from the noble Marquess, I am afraid, leaves little doubt as to what his attitude will be; but I would like to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Government are prepared to give their support to the Resolution of the noble Earl?
§ EARL GRANVILLELike my noble Friend (the Earl of Rosebery), I should not like to give a definite opinion without further consideration on the point of Order so suddenly stated by the noble Marquess; but, at the same time, I should have thought that, primâ facie, the Resolution of the noble Earl is perfectly in Order. I believe that all we resolved the other day was that the Bill should not be read a second time on that day, except on certain conditions. The Bill still remains on the Minutes of your Lordships' House for second reading; and that may be done at any time, if it is the pleasure of your Lordships that it should pass. With reference to the Question of the noble Earl (the Earl of Rosebery) as to my view of the Resolution, of which Notice has been given, I agree with him in regretting that the noble Marquess has taken the earliest opportunity of putting his foot down against the proposition which has been started by an independent Peer with the object of removing a great difficulty, and enabling some adjustment to be arrived at between the two Houses of Parliament. Certainly, if that spirit is to obtain, the Government are prepared to support the proposal of the noble Earl, reserving, of course, the question of the exact date at which Parliament should meet. I may say that, in November, we should be prepared to undertake—
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSMy Resolution says in the early autumn.
§ EARL GRANVILLEYes; but I think November might be a more convenient time, and in the course of that month I should say we would be able to undertake the great task of redistribution—on the condition, of course, that the Bill do pass this Session.
LORD DENMANsaid, that in 1859 the hon. Member for Berkshire had intended, as he said, to oppose Lord John Russell's Amendment, which occupied seven days in debate (and this House, he said, was lucky to escape with two); but he 876 was surprised that the noble and learned Lord should have proposed such an Amendment as he so severely blamed Lord John Russell for proposing it, that the noble Earl on the Cross Benches (the Earl of Wemyss) had to defend the then Solicitor General from an attack upon him for having imputed interested motives to the Mover of the Amendment (Lord John Russell). It certainly was on the 31st of March, and this was so late as 7th of July; but it had not succeeded in advancing Reform as in the hands of a supposed ardent reformer, who caused the question to sleep for seven years.
§ THE EARL OF REDESDALE (CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES)I would be much obliged to the noble Earl (the Earl of Wemyss), if he would answer the Question I am about to put to him—Does he believe that, until the matter of redistribution is settled, anyone can determine in what manner the extension of the franchise will affect the constitution of the House of Commons?
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSI will answer the Question when I give my reasons for moving the Resolution on Thursday.
THE EARL OF JERSEYAfter the conciliatory speech of the noble Earl opposite the Leader of the House—which shows a silver lining to the cloud—I trust we shall not allow such a chance to be lost for arriving at a solution of this grave political difficulty through any informality in the Resolution presented to the notice of the House.