MOTION FOR AN ADDRESS. (Hansard, 11 August 1884)

§ LORD WAVENEY
, in rising to move an humble Address to Her Majesty on the conditions under which certain Scottish and Irish Peers are elected periodically, or for life, as Representatives in the House of Lords, said, that he had at one time intended to postpone the question until next Session; but circumstances had occurred which had led him to alter his determination. Since that withdrawal a great deal had happened, and it appeared to him that if they wanted to maintain their corporate 413 dignity and cohesion, they could not move too soon. He referred mainly to the dissemination throughout the country of views and statements hostile, and in some cases even personally hostile, to Members of that House. In saying that, he did not speak of the magnificent demonstration in Hyde Park, but of the feeling of hostility disseminated throughout the country by some who, being Ministers of the Crown, ought to restrain such violence. There was, it appeared to him, a great misconception in the public mind with regard to the decisions of that House; and it was their duty to place that House before the country in the full lustre of its independence. He would call their Lordships' attention to the Committees which sat in 1867 and subsequent years on the question of Representative Peers, and would urge the importance and advantage of bringing the Irish Peerage and Scottish Peerage into a line with the English Peerage. It was important that the House should know what men thought of the constitution of the House elsewhere; and, as an instance, he would say that he had had forwarded to him the result of a great meeting in Belfast, a meeting composed of men faithful to the Constitution. The Ulster Liberal Society, holding its meetings at Belfast, by its committee of management, passed various resolutions, the first of which stated— That this society strongly condemns the action of the House of Lords in rejecting the Franchise Bill, and pledges itself to support the Government in whatever action they may think necessary to secure its passing into law. It was quite clear from that, that it was all-important, at the present juncture, that they should endeavour to remove any blot from the system under which the House was constituted.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
I quite agree with my noble Friend (Lord Waveney) in thinking that the subject is undoubtedly very well deserving consideration; but if my noble Friend will look round him, I think he will see that, 414 on the present occasion, we hardly fulfil the first condition he has mentioned—namely, that we should be present in some force in order that we may be able to reform ourselves. I am sure, therefore, my noble Friend will not be surprised if I tell him that, having regard to the state of the House, it is quite impossible for us to agree to the course suggested by him, though I quite agree with my noble Friend in what I understand to be his view—namely, that the present mode of electing the Scotch and Irish Peers is not satisfactory. My noble Friend (Lord Colchester), in connection with a Question in the former part of the evening, made some allusion to the system of the representation of minorities; and he thought that, in any reform of the system of representation in Parliament, the minority should be secured by some special enactment. Without entering in any way into the large question of the application of that principle, I may say that if there be any particular case to which that system is applicable, it would be the election of Scotch and Irish Peers. I have not a word to say against noble Lords who represent Ireland and Scotland under the present system of election; they are chosen by those who have a right to choose them; but it seems to me unreasonable that the natural operation of the present system of election should result in all the Representatives of Scotland and Ireland belonging to one political Party, and it would be better to secure a more proportionate representation in the Scotch and Irish Peerage. While I cannot advise your Lordships to agree to the Motion, I fully admit that any practical measures taken with this object must receive very careful consideration—indeed, I think the whole subject is one well worthy of attention.

THE EARL OF ROSEBERY
said, he thought they were indebted to the noble Earl who had just spoken (the Earl of Kimberley) for having done that which the noble Lord who introduced the subject had failed to do. In other words, he had addressed himself to the Notice on the Paper. The noble Lord (Lord Waveney) had pursued the inconvenient course of putting on the Paper a Notice in reference to the election of Scotch and Irish Representative Peers. With regard to the matter, he had to com- 415 plain that, in the course of his speech, the noble Lord only made one passing and fleeting allusion to that topic. That allusion was the assertion that Scottish and Irish Peers were a self-constituted Body; but he failed to understand how they could be described as a self-constituted Body, or, indeed, how any body of Peers could be so described, unless they selected their own fathers and mothers. As a matter of fact, the Scottish and Irish Peers were not half so much self-constituted as hereditary Peers were. The noble Lord had urged that, as people were now saying ill-natured and unpleasant things about the House of Lords, that Assembly should take steps for its own reform. But to those who were averse to any reform of the House of Lords the proposal of the noble Lord would not recommend itself; while to those who were in favour of reform the proposal would appear to be wholly inadequate. Great as were the anomalies in the mode of electing Scottish and Irish Peers, those Peers, at all events, had constituencies, and that was more than could be said for the major part of the House, as they were not elected. He therefore ventured to urge on that crowded House, on that interesting occasion, that the proposal before the House was insufficient to meet the requirements of the case. The speech of the noble Lord had neither been commensurate with the occasion, nor at all relevant to the Motion.