HL Deb 28 June 1881 vol 262 cc1459-63

House in Committee (on Re-commitment) (according to order).

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3 (Provisions as to register of veterinary surgeons).

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

said, he proposed that the period of practice which should qualify a man to exercise the profession of veterinary surgeon without examination should be reduced from five years to three years.

Moved, In page 1, line 28, after ("College") insert ("or unless he has been in practice as a veterinary surgeon for three years at the time of the passing of this Act.")

LORD ABERDARE

said, that the object of the Bill was to prevent persons from practising who were utterly unfitted to do so. Many suggestions had been made to him, and some persons thought that five or even ten years' practice should be required.

EARL SPENCER

said, he thought five years ought to be retained, though he had no great objection to the proposal of the noble Marquess.

Amendment agreed to.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN,

in moving the insertion of the following new Clause after Clause 3:— The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons shall be bound to make provision in the manner permitted by their charters for the examination in Scotland of the students attending the several Scotch Veterinary Colleges, and to admit and register such students as have passed the examination as members of the said Royal College under the provisions of such-charters and this Act, said, that the object of the clause was very simple, being merely to compel the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons to do by statute that which they now did of themselves in one of their bye-laws. Students were permitted to be examined in Scotland; and if that were discontinued, it would be a great disadvantage to students, and as the Bill proposed to give the monopoly of granting licences to the College, it would only be fair that it should be compelled by statute to hold examinations in Scotland.

New Clause moved, to follow Clause 3:

(Provision for examination of students in Scotland.)

"The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons shall be bound to make provision in the manner permitted by their charters for the examination in Scotland of the students attending the several Scotch Veterinary Colleges, and to admit and register such students as have passed the examination as members of the said Royal College under the provisions of such charters and this Act."—(The Earl of Camperdown.)

LORD ABERDARE

said, he saw no objection to the Amendment, and would, therefore, accept it.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 4 to 14, inclusive, agreed to, with Amendments.

LORD ABERDARE

said, he begged to propose a new clause for the purpose of exempting all veterinary surgeons who had been placed on the register from serving on juries and other public offices, in the same manner as dentists were exempted. He contended that as the services of veterinary surgeons were urgently required they should not be obliged to attend as jurors at the Assizes and Quarter Sessions, or be called upon to serve on Local Boards and in other Public Departments.

Moved, after Clause 14, to insert the following Clause:— Every person registered under this Act shall be exempt, if he so desires, from serving on all juries and inquests whatsoever, and from serving all corporate, parochial, ward, hundred, and township offices, and from serving in the militia; and the name of any registered person shall not be returned in any list of persons liable to serve in the militia or in any such office as aforesaid."—(The Lord Aberdare.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

said, he was sorry to differ in opinion on this subject with his noble Friend; but he hoped this Amendment would not be agreed to. The number of exemptions led now to much inconvenience, as all those who had to attend the Assizes and Quarter Sessions well knew. Besides, a Judge had always the power to excuse any person from serving on the jury if it were shown that his services were required on an important matter. He greatly objected to all veterinary surgeons who were well qualified to serve as jurors being exempted by statute.

LORD DENMAN

said, no doubt a Judge or Chairman could abstain from fining or excuse a fine in the case of any veterinary surgeon who had been detained by a case; but he should support the Amendment, on the ground that it was important to have the services of a veterinary surgeon the first moment he was sent for. He had asked if farriers, without calling themselves veterinary surgeons, would be fined? Some people employed cow-leeches for the euro of their horses and cattle. He remembered a case of a practitioner in Notts pronouncing a horse ill of symtanic fever, which he defined to be "mutual sensations;" and on that opinion the Earl of Surrey returned a horse for which he had paid £400. But the opinion was worthless, and a return of the horse to the purchaser and payment of costs ensued. If a veterinary surgeon were at a county town for Assizes or Sessions, he could not save the life of cattle almost choked, or young animals seized with inflammation.

LORD ABERDARE

said, that in some counties it was the practice not to summon veterinary surgeons to serve on any jury; but in other counties they were required to serve. It would be only reasonable that the law and practice should be uniform. If dentists were exempted, he thought veterinary surgeons ought also to be exempted.

On question? Their Lordships divided:—Contents 32; Not-Contents 51: Majority 19.

CONTENTS.
Devonshire, D. Denman, L.
Richmond, D. Foxford, L. (E. Limerick.)
Salisbury, M. Hartismere, L. (L. Henniker.)
De La Warr, E. [Teller.] Kenlis, L. (M. Headfort.)
Lathom, E. Ker, L. (M. Lothian.)
Morton, E. Lamington, L.
Mount Edgcumbe, E. Penrhyn, L.
Wilton, E. Shute, L. (V. Barrington.)
Hardinge, V. Silchester, L. (E. Longford.)
Hawarden, V.
Melville, V. Stewart of Garlies, L. (E. Galloway.)
Aberdare, L. [Teller.] Stratheden and Campbell, L.
Ashford, L. (V. Bury.)
Brodrick, L. (V. Midleton.) Strathspey, L. (E. Seafield.)
Chelmsford, L. Trevor, L.
Clanbrassill, L. (E. Roden.) Tyrone, L. (M. Waterford.)
Colchester, L. Waveney, L.
NOT-CONTENTS.
Selborne, L. (L. Chancellor.) Morley, E.
Powis, E.
Saint Germans, E.
Somerset, D. Spencer, E.
Stanhope, E.
Airlie, E. Yarhorough, E.
Belmore, E.
Camperdown, E. Eversley, V.
Derby, E. Sherbrooke, V.
Doncaster, E. (D. Bucclench and Queens-berry.)
Abinger, L.
Balinhard, L. (E. Southesk.)
Kimberley, E.
Leven and Melville, E. Blachford, L.
Mar and Kellie, E. Boyle, L. (E. Cork and Orrery.) [Teller.]
Minto, E.
Brabourne, L. Monson, L. [Teller.]
Breadalbane, L. (E. Breadalbane.) Monteagle of Brandon, L.
Carlingford, L. Mostyn, L.
Carysfort, L. (E. Carysfort.) Mount Temple, L.
Ramsay, L. (E. Dalhousie.)
Cottesloe, L.
Crewe, L. Ribblesdale, L.
Digby, L. Rosebery, L. (E. Rosebery.)
Dorchester, L.
Foley, L. Skene, L. (E. Fife.)
Harlech, L. Strafford, L. (V. Enfield.)
Hatherton, L.
Kenmare, L. (E. Kenmare.) Talbot de Malahide, L.
Winmarleigh, L.
Leigh, L. Wolverton, L.
Loftus, L. (M. Ely.) Wrottesley, L.
Monck, L. (V. Monck.)

Resolved in the negative.

Remaining Clauses agreed to, with Amendments.

The Report of the Amendments to be received on Tuesday next; and Bill to be printed, as amended. (No. 137.)