THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNsaid, he wished to ask the noble Earl the Chairman of Committees a Question of which he had given him private Notice— Whether, at the next meeting of the Committee appointed in reference to the Offices of Clerk of the Parliaments and Usher of the Black Rod, he would bring under its notice the regulations under which strangers were now admitted within the precincts of their Lordships' House, with a view to their re-consideration and enforcement? The strangers who were admitted to their Lordships' House were not merely persons of their own sex; indeed, the most important portion of them were ladies. The Rules under which they were admitted, from a period so long ago as 1849, in which year it was decided that Peeresses and unmarried daughters of Peers should be admitted to the Gallery of the House. 199 The only change which had been made since that time was in the year 1864, when it was determined that only one unmarried daughter of a Peer should be admitted on occasions when it was expected there was going to be a considerable debate. That Rule, so altered, stood till the present time; but under the regulations of their Lordships' House there were no means of enforcing these rules. These was only one doorkeeper appointed to take charge of the doors on both sides of their Lordships' House. To show the way this system worked, he could not do better than describe what took place on Thursday last. On that occasion it was well known that the Prime Minister was going to make an important statement, and, of course, the ladies trooped down to the House, not in scores, but in hundreds. There were no checks; they were permitted to enter the House so early as half-past 3 o'clock. Their Lordships might imagine the feelings of the one doorkeeper when he found himself confronted with legions of ladies, all determined to hear the Prime Minister. The result had been a considerable amount of dissatisfaction and complaint, as their Lordships must have heard. So much for the Ladies Gallery. The wives of the eldest sons of Peers had also complained that the modest box set apart for their entertainment was generally occupied by the time they arrived, and that they found themselves in a position decidedly inferior to the unmarried daughters of their Lordships. Perhaps, however, it was thought they had a certain amount of compensation for that in the fact that it was tolerably certain, in the ordinary course of events, their Lordships would give way to their eldest sons, and their wives would thereby find themselves in a position from which, at the present time, they were most rigidly excluded. The same sort of difficulty was felt on Thursday last in the Diplomatists' Gallery. When various distinguished diplomatists arrived, they found their seats occupied by persons who were not diplomatists, and who did not give way. They had, therefore, to leave the House, or to take up such inferior positions as they found themselves able to obtain. He must also call attention not only to what took place on that occasion, but to what ordinarily took place on the steps of the Throne. In regard to the steps of the Throne, 200 there was no Order of their Lordships' House; but it was the immemorial practice that the eldest sons of Peers, Scotch and Irish Peers and Privy Councillors should be admitted to the steps of the Throne. But, as their Lordships must have seen, persons who belonged to none of these categories found their way there. He had himself seen distinguished dignitaries of the Church, Members of the other House of Parliament, and other persons who had no right to be there, congregated round the steps of the Throne. If they were to have Rules, would it not be well to have those Rules enforced? Would it not be advisable that Rules, dating 30 years back, should be re-considered by a Committee of their Lordships' House; and, when they had been revised, that proper means should be taken to make them effective, and so to prevent the confusion that had arisen not only last Thursday, but on many previous occasions, which their Lordships would remember? He begged to ask the noble Earl the Question of which he had given Notice.
§ THE EARL OF REDESDALEsaid, he was only Chairman of the Committee, but he would bring the matter before it if their Lordships wished him to do so. He did not see in what manner they were to enforce any regulations it might choose to make in regard to the countless number of ladies who came down to their House. There were no doubt considerable abuses in the way the privilege of entrance was exercised. A policeman might be of some advantage in stopping irregularities in regard to the use of the Diplomatic Gallery, for certainly to break into that Gallery and keep out the diplomatists was a very decided offence. But he did not see how they could employ the same means in regard to the Ladies' Gallery. Their Lordships had largely the remedy in their own hands. They could easily prevent all but such ladies of their families as had a right of admittance from coming down on such an occasion as last Thursday. He could only hope that the statement which had been made regarding the inconvenience that arose on Thursday last would have its effect upon those who, by their conduct, caused that inconvenience.
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, the subject was one of considerable im- 201 portance, for there could be no doubt that, even supposing the Rules were rigidly observed, there would still be a most enormous deficiency in the accommodation for those who naturally expected admittance. There was a common error that the side Galleries were set apart for Peeresses. The fact was, their Lordships might sit there and even address the House from those Galleries. It was only a matter of courtesy that anyone holding the Office he had the honour to hold, if he saw, after the House met, that those Galleries were not likely to be occupied by Peers, might order the doors to be opened for the reception of Peeresses. That was only a contingent privilege of admittance. He had many years ago proposed, and he now made the suggestion again, that the Galleries of the House might be made to accommodate two rows of seats up the whole length of the House. He was informed that this would add to the acoustic properties of the House, and would in no way interfere with the architectural symmetry of the building. It would make the Galleries much more comfortable.
§ EARL GRANVILLEsaid, there was, no doubt, foundation for the complaints to which his noble Friends had referred. He did not see that there was much necessity to enforce strict Rules on ordinary occasions; but, on great occasions like last Thursday, there certainly ought to be something done. He was told that in several cases large numbers of the same family came down and succeeded in occupying places. It was a reasonable Rule that at such times only one daughter of a family should be admitted, and this Rule ought to be enforced.
§ THE EARL OF HARROWBYthought their Lordships ought to be thankful that things were no worse. There was an occasion on record—Horace Walpole told them of it—when ladies striving to gain admission, and getting in between two doors, kicked and screamed, and made such a noise, that the Lords were unable to carry on their proceedings for several hours. The ladies of the present day showed, at least, more decorum than to conduct themselves in. that fashion.