COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 20 May 1873)

EARL GREY
rose to move an Amendment, of which he had given Notice, and. took occasion to repeat the objection he had urged on the second reading, to the policy recognized in the Bill. He contended that as Free Trade had been adopted as the commercial policy of the British Empire, it ought to be the commercial policy of our Colonies. It was easy to say—as had been said by his noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies—that it was perhaps better for the Imperial Parliament to act on the principle that in these matters the Australian Colonies knew what policy was best for themselves. But he (Earl Grey) denied the soundness of that proposition. It was impossible to read the Blue Books without seeing that many of the statesmen of the Australian Colonies were in such utter ignorance of the principles of political economy, that of the writings of Adam Smith and Mr. Ricardo they seemed never to have even heard. Their Lordships were aware that before self-government was given to those colonies they had been making very rapid progress, and that, while affording emigrants from this country a rich field for their labour, they enjoyed very great advantages from the influx of British colonists. We had allowed them, and he thought properly allowed them, self-government; but it was notorious that since they had got their own Legislatures there had been in those colonies gross land jobbings and other corruption. It was going too far, therefore, to say that the Australian Colonies knew what was best for themselves, and on this plea to pass Acts in the Imperial Parliament which would sanction the severance of all material ties between them and the mother country. If this wore done, the nominal union could tend to nothing but the imposition of a burden and a responsibility on this country. If the Australian Colonies were to be allowed to tax at their pleasure British trade, to subject it to unfair disadvantages, and to 154 create artificial barriers to the natural course of British commerce, he should like to know of what advantage a continuance of the union could be to this country? He believed that to sanction such a policy was as great a blunder as it was possible to commit. He thought that our Colonies should be distinctly informed that the Imperial Government had adopted a certain commercial policy, to which if they wished to remain integral portions of the Empire they must conform. He was not, however, on this occasion asking the Government to retrace their steps—he only asked that New Zealand, which was 1,200 miles from the Australian Colonies, should be omitted from the Bill; and he begged to move an Amendment to that effect.

THE EARL OF BELMORE
said, that though there were 1,200 miles of sea between the mainland of Australia and New Zealand, the people of the two Colonies followed very much the same pursuits. There were physical differences between the Colonies, but in both the colonists were Englishmen or their descendants. There was no such difference between them as to form grounds for excluding New Zealand from the benefits of this Bill. Take, for example, the case of sugar. Sugar could only be grown in Queensland and the northern parts of New South Wales. Suppose a merchant at Brisbane wanted to send a cargo of sugar in the winter season to New Zealand and another to Melbourne. In the one case he would ship it probably on board a barque which would run down before the westerly winds in 10 or 12 days. In the other case the distance was say 1,100 miles. The ship would probably have a fair wind as far, as Cape Howe, but she would then have to beat up to Melbourne through Bass's Straits, and would probably be longer on her voyage than the New Zealand vessel; and why should her sugar go into Melbourne perhaps duty free, perhaps at a very low rate, whilst the cargo of the other would be charged a high duty in New Zealand? The noble Earl (Earl Grey) had talked about shutting out the produce of other countries, but as far as he (Earl Belmore) could at this moment remember, sugar from the Mauritius was the only important article likely to be much affected, It was quite true that wine was grown in Australia, but anyone who had drunk it knew that it was a very different 155 article from the wines of France and Germany, and very little likely to displace them. As to the Cape, which had been instanced, he was informed that there was absolutely no trade between Sydney and the Cape. It was very easy to get from the Cape to Sydney, but by no means so easy to get back again. With regard to Victoria, its tariff was, no doubt, protective; but he had recently heard that the lower classes were feeling the ill-effects of having to pay high prices for clothing, and that a feeling of opposition was beginning to grow up to protection. He doubted whether it could be asserted that the policy of our other Australian Colonies was, on the whole, favourable to protection. Tasmania had lost the convict settlements, on the expenditure of which it used to rely, and the only way of raising a revenue was by means of Customs duties. He knew that the tariff of South Australia was a revenue and not a protectionist tariff. He believed that the same was the case in Queensland. New South Wales never had a protective tariff. Changes occurred very rapidly in our colonies, and matters were very much altered since the noble Earl (Earl Grey) held the seals of the Colonial Office. Due allowance must be made for friction in dealing with the colonies, and if the Bill shut out New Zealand there would be friction of a very unpleasant kind. He trusted that their Lordships would not adopt a policy so unwise as to agree to the Amendment.

§ LORD LISGAR
hoped the noble Earl on the cross-benches (Earl Grey) might be induced not to press his Amendment. It was impossible not to admit the force of the arguments he had adduced, or to deny them their due weight. The measure was pregnant with all the consequences he had foreshadowed; but it was the will and doing of the colonies themselves, and if it be the thin end of the wedge of eventual separation, there could be no doubt as to the hand that placed and fixed it—it was not the hand of any British statesman or any British party, but of some colonial clique greedy of commercial profit. Let this be kept in recollection. Everything that could be stated in favour of free trade and that could show the disadvantage and mischief of protection would be found placed in the clearest light in the despatches of the Secretary of State 156 for the Colonies. His hand was, however, forced, and when he found the colonies deaf to his arguments he preferred to make concessions. Some of the colonies were, no doubt, protectionist; in others the feeling in favour of protection was more apparent than real. Parties were so nearly balanced that Colonial Ministries were not always able to carry out their own views. During the seven years in which he was Governor of New South Wales he did not recollect any Minister who had been strong enough in the Legislative Assembly to impose direct taxation. When he had been there about four years the main issue at the General Election was Free Trade against Protection. The free-traders carried the day by an immense majority, and he did not believe that this feeling had died out. A Sydney newspaper which enjoyed a circulation seven times larger than its contemporaries said, that protection had never been adopted as a rule in that colony, and never would be. No Minister in New South Wales had ever attempted to form an Administration on protective principles. New South Wales was indispensable to any protectionist combination, and so long as it remained favourable to Free Trade any protectionist union would be impossible.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
said, that although the point raised by the noble Earl (Earl Grey) in his Amendment was comparatively minute, yet he did not regret that the debate had taken a wider range. He regretted that this Bill had become necessary; but the principle of self-government was even more important than the principle of free trade. He agreed that the Government were taking a serious step; but it was exaggerating its importance to say that the Bill took a step which was leading in the path of Colonial independence. It only allowed the Australian Colonies to follow a policy which other colonies had already been permitted to adopt. Long before confederation, the North American Colonies were allowed to establish differential duties between themselves and it was remarkable that the commencement of that policy dated from 1850, when his noble Friend on the cross-benches (Earl Grey) held the seals of the Colonial Office. The Canadian Legislature in that year passed an Act providing that the Governor in Council might declare any article which 157 was the growth, produce, or manufacture of the British North American Provinces or possessions, or any one or more of them, to be admissible into Canada free of duty, and might determine under what circumstances, conditions, and regulations they should be admitted. It was true his noble Friend did not advise assent to that measure; but, on the other hand, he did not advise disallowance of it. What he did was this: Finding himself responsible for the maintenance of good relations between this country and one of our great colonies, his noble Friend did not venture to advise the disallowance of the Bill, but he suggested an Amendment—which, however was disregarded by the Colonial Legislature, and the measure passed into law, and remained in force until 1859, when it was superseded by other legislation. The action taken then was similar to that which had since been taken, for it had been found inadvisable to refuse the request of the Australian Colonies to obtain power to impose differential duties as regarded their trade with each other. The Amendment moved this evening by his noble Friend had for its object the exclusion of New Zealand from the operation of the present Bill. He admitted the other night that New Zealand differed from the other Colonies, inasmuch as it was disunited from them by a considerable interval of sea; but as the noble Earl (the Earl of Belmore) then pointed out the distance from New Zealand to the nearest part of Australia was not greater for all practical purposes than the distance from one part of Australia to another, and in point of fact the intercourse between New Zealand and the Australian Colonies was extremely close. The total of the imports into New Zealand in 1871 was £4,078,192, and the total of the imports into New Zealand from Australia was no less than £1,970,159. Moreover, the latter was a constantly increasing trade. It should be borne in mind that New Zealand, although situated at a distance from Australia, belonged to all intents and purposes to the great Australian group of Colonies. The similarity of opinion between the different Colonies was remarkable, and it would be unreasonable to withhold from New Zealand a power which was granted to Australia. This was not a point in re- 158 gard to which it would be wise to maintain a stubborn and unyielding opposition to the wishes of the Colonies themselves, and certainly it was very unwise to take their stand upon points in reference to which they could not maintain their position. If, however, no such opposition was advisable, no course remained open except that which Her Majesty's Government had pursued. They had placed before the Colonies the objections they entertained to the course intended to be pursued. They had given them time for reflection, and when they found that, after full consideration, they were firm in their opinion they thought it their duty no longer to resist the concessions that were desired. But Her Majesty's Government had by no means conceded all the powers which some of the Colonies asked for. They had not empowered the Colonies to conclude Treaties with foreign Powers, nor had they broken down the restrictions upon differential duties on goods imported to the Colonies from foreign countries or from this country. They had simply enabled the Colonies to make reciprocity arrangements with one another as regarded the products of the Colonies themselves. It would, in his opinion, be most unfortunate if, in these circumstances, their Lordships should be induced to accept the Amendment of his noble Friend.