HL Deb 24 March 1873 vol 215 cc1-4

(The Earl of Shaftesbury.)

(NO. 29.) COMMITTEE.

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.

Moved, "That the House do resolve itself into Committee."—(The Earl of Shaftesbury.)

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

suggested that the Bill should be sent to the Committee pro formâ. He would remind their Lordships that on the second reading he drew attention to the unsatisfactory state of the existing law with regard to cases of bastardy, and pointed out that even with the Amendment which this Bill proposed to make, no real improvement would be effected. As their Lordships were doubtless aware, the Bill had been introduced with the object of remedying a curious slip in the Act of last Session. It had been rendered necessary through a blunder of the other House, and it was no doubt highly necessary that the blunder should be rectified as soon as possible. But as the Legislature had commenced once more to deal with the matter he thought they should not confine themselves to the defect in the Act of last Session, but see to improve the whole law. At present the law was so complicated and puzzling that it was a troublesome and difficult matter to ascertain accurately how cases of this description should be dealt with. By way of illustration, he might refer to Clause No. 3, which altered certain forms in an enactment of 1845; but on referring to that Statute he found it was one explaining, referring to, and reciting another Act which had been repealed, so that some of the Act of 1845 rested on nothing at all, and Clause 3 of this Bill altered forms which had not now any existence at all. In fact, these forms were placed in mid-air, with nothing in particular for them to rest upon, and the clause referred to forms which had no legitimate existence whatever. It was not surprising that with such a law as this justices of the peace and others should be puzzled how to dispense the law, and that the law should work unsatisfactorily. No blame whatever rested on Mr. Charley who introduced the Bill in the other House—the alterations to which he had just referred were made during the progress of the Bill through that House. If their Lordships committed the Bill pro formâ, he (the Marquess of Salisbury) would on the Report introduce Amendments which would repeal any portions of former Acts which it was necessary to deal with, and would re-enact any provisions in those Acts which it was thought necessary to continue. This he thought was a more work man like way of proceeding than that of referring to a number of previous Statutes without quoting the portions that were to remain in operation. He believed there was to difference on the matter between him and the noble Earl (the Earl of Shaftesbury) who had charge of the Bill, and he thought the mode of proceeding which he proposed had the sanction of his noble Friend the Chairman of Committees, whose opinion on questions of form their Lordships all so much respected. He might add that he did not think his noble and learned Friend on the Woolsack had any objection to the Amendments in point of form. He (the Marquis of Salisbury) begged, therefore, to move that the Bill be now committed pro formâ, so as to enable him to have his Amendments printed. When the Bill next came before their Lordships they would have full opportunity for discussing any Amendments and additions which he might propose.

THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY

said that, as his noble Friend had explained, neither he nor Mr. Charley was answerable for the portion of the Bill that required correction. His only wish was to have the object of the Bill carried out in the most effective manner; and, there- fore, he had no objection to the course proposed by the noble Marquess.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

said, he had looked over the Amendments which the noble Marquess proposed to insert in the Bill, and he could not see any objection to them in point of form. But he would suggest to his noble Friend who had charge of the Bill (the Earl of Shaftesbury) whether in its next stage a clause ought not to be introduced to confirm orders made by justices in ignorance of the flaw which had been discovered in the Act of last Session.

Motion agreed to; House in Committee accordingly; Bill reported without Amendment; Amendments made; Bill recommitted to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next; and to be printed as amended. (No. 44.)

Back to