§ EARL STANHOPEgave Notice, that on Friday next he would move for Copies of any Communications which may have passed between Her Majesty's Government and the Government of France on the subject of re-imposition of Passports.
§ THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, he wished to put the Secretary for Foreign Affairs a Question of which he had given his noble Friend Notice. It was, Whether he would lay on the Table of their Lordships' House Papers which 943 one of his Colleagues had already promised in the other House of Parliament—namely, the Correspondence between Her Majesty's Government and the Government of France, on the subject of the passports now demanded of British subjects on their entry into France? During the Empire, when this country and France were on the best possible terms, and all old jealousies seemed to have passed away, nothing had tended so much to the good feeling at that time existing, as the abolition of passports so far as British subjects were concerned. That might appear somewhat extraordinary, regard being had to the very important questions on which there was a complete agreement between the Government of Her Majesty and that of Napoleon III.; but still the fact remained, that the abolition by the French Government of passports in the case of British subjects had been attended with the best effects in the establishment of friendly feelings between the two nations. He should not be going beyond the mark when he asserted that after the abolition of passports had been accomplished not fewer than 600,000 visitors from this country entered Paris. Now, supposing they expended only £10 a-head, the aggregate was a large gain to the French capital received not in regular trade, but in the spendings of pocket money. He certainly was surprised at a moment like the present, when the French Government was in such great difficulties in regard to money, it should re-establish a system which must have the effect of preventing foreigners from going to France and spending their money there. It was not, however, this alone that made Englishmen wonder that this policy of erecting a kind of Chinese wall round France, should be reverted to after it had once been abolished, and the advantages of its abolition once perceived. There was the further fact that the passport system was utterly useless as a means of keeping out of a country the evil-disposed, and those whose presence might be dangerous to its institutions. Those were the very persons who were always duly provided with passports. It was harmless people—those who were bent on no plots—who omitted to provide themselves with a passport, or who neglected to obtain the requisite visa. He hoped his noble Friend would be able to give to their Lordships some 944 hope of this vexatious policy being abandoned. He also wished to ask his noble Friend, whether there was any objection to the production of the Correspondence—if any such communications had passed—between the two Governments with reference to the landing of destitute French persons on the shores of this country? If the accounts which had reached him were true, as many as 50 or 60 of those persons had been shipped off in one packet to this country—from the port of Dieppe especially. He did not, of course, vouch for the statements made on this subject; but it was alleged that persons of this class had been put on board in a state of utter destitution. They stated that their last franc had been taken from them on the plea that it was to be applied in payment of the expenses of sending them out of France. Now, he remembered that similar deportations had been made after the coup d'etat in 1852, and again after the Orsini conspiracy in 1858. On both those occasions the Government of the Empire took the opportunity of getting rid of persons who were of bad character, and who had opposed the Empire, by sending them over to this country in batches. The Government of this country remonstrated with the French Government on both occasions, and he must do the French Government the justice to say that it listened to the remonstrances and put an end to this disreputable practice. He should therefore like to know whether there had been any Correspondence on the subject of its renewal, and whether his noble Friend would have any objection to produce the Papers, if communications had been exchanged?
§ EARL GRANVILLEsaid, that, in reply to the first Question of his noble Friend (the Earl of Malmesbury), he had to say that there would be no objection to the production of the Correspondence on the subject of passports. Indeed, he might observe that he made it a rule to lay on their Lordships' Table all Papers relating to Foreign Affairs which were produced in the other House of Parliament. With regard to the landing of destitute Frenchmen on the shores of this country, there had been a correspondence between the two Governments. He was not aware that there would be any objection to his producing it; and he hoped it would be found as satisfactory 945 as that to which his noble Friend had referred, as having passed between the Government of this country and the French Government on former occasions.
§ EARL STANHOPEsaid, that in consequence of the statement just made by his noble Friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, he withdrew the Notice which he had given for Friday evening. He most fully concurred in what had been said by his noble Friend (the Earl of Malmesbury) on the passport system; and to illustrate the inutility of the system, he would mention what had come within his own experience last September. Travelling from Strasburg to Paris, he never was asked for his passport—not even when passing the frontier, nor on Ms arriving in Paris, nor during his stay in that city; but all that time the passport system was strictly enforced on the direct line between Calais and Paris and Boulogne and Paris. Now, then, if there were any conspirator or other dangerous person desiring to proceed from England to France, he had only to travel through Belgium to Strasburg and thence go to Paris without a passport. This showed the utter inutility of the passport system. There was another point—one to which his noble Friend who had asked the Question had not alluded—he meant the exorbitant amount demanded for the French visa to an English passport. It had always been supposed that the sum charged for a visa was intended only to repay the expenses of the establishment; but it could hardly be supposed that 10 francs on each visa were necessary to defray those expenses.
§ THE EARL OF MALMESBURYTen francs for every name in the passport.
§ EARL STANHOPEbelieved his noble Friend was quite correct as to the demand first made, though not since insisted on—10 francs for every name. He should be very sorry to see retaliation resorted to; but he must say that such a system, if persevered in, would justify a retaliatory measure. He made these remarks without any disrespect, but, on the contrary, with the most cordial feeling of respect towards France. No one could see without admiration the gallant efforts made by that country to pay her contributions and recover from the effects of the late war; but the passport system was vexatious to Englishmen and injurious to 946 France. There was already, independent of the passport system, a disadvantage to travellers who desired to take the route through France to Germany, and they had rather an inducement to adopt the Belgian route, in the fact that there were second-class carriages to all the Belgian trains; while the express trains from Paris to Strasburg had only first-class carriages; so that if a gentleman brought his footman with him the latter must travel in a first-class carriage side by side with his own or somebody else's master, and first-class fare must be paid for him. He hoped that all those obstacles to free communication between the two countries would receive due consideration, and that the Correspondence which his noble Friend the Foreign Secretary had promised to produce would show that our Government had done their best to have them removed.