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Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
Moved, "That it be an Instruction to the Committee that they have power to make provision for extending the Bill to payments and acts other than the payments of bills of exchange and promissory notes."—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
§ LORD OVERSTONEsaid, he cordially approved the object and what he understood to be the principle of the Bill. In this country there were at present 54 days in the year, Sundays, Christmas Day, and Good Friday, on which ordinary legal obligations with regard to business were suspended. These were obviously religious holidays in their character and purpose; while the Bill would supplement these by four others, which might be deemed purely secular—namely, the 26th of December, in case Christmas Day fell on a Sunday, Easter Monday, Whit Monday, and the first Monday in August. This step was in harmony with the social tendencies of the times, and the days had been judiciously selected, for three of them immediately followed religious holidays. He also approved the wider scope which the noble Marquess proposed to give to the Bill; but he would suggest the omission throughout the measure of the word "bank," as one which had no legally defined meaning, was very ambiguous, and was likely to lead to confusion. Moreover, he saw no reason why these opportunities of relaxation should be confined to persons employed in banks. What was to be desired was that all persons in this hard-working country should have such opportunities. The word "general" might be substituted for "bank."
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, he entirely concurred with the views of the noble Lord (Lord Overstone) in the propriety of extending the scope of the Bill:—no good purpose would be served by confining its action to banks—but still he could not go so far with the noble Lord as to say that it was necessary to construct anew the language of the Bill. The Bill, after all, was in the main a Bank Holiday Bill, and there was no reason why that title should not be used. It would be a Bank Holiday Bill, for this reason, that banks were subject to those compulsory duties which required legislation to relax. He believed it would be a very great improvement in the Bill to extend its provisions from banks to other institutions; but he trusted the noble Lord would not persevere in his intention to go through the Bill and change all its terminology—to do so would create a good deal of delay—more especially as his object would be met, even although at the cost of symmetry, 863 by the Amendment which he (the Marquess of Salisbury) proposed to move.
§ LORD REDESDALEthought six holidays in the year would not be too much to give to persons who were closely confined to business, and they should be equally distributed over the year. The present Bill gave only four, and there was a large portion of the year during which no holiday intervened at all. If there was a holiday on the first Monday in February, and another on the first Monday in November, this would give a holiday in every two months. He did not know whether this would be acceptable to the promoters of the Bill; if not, the Amendment could be struck out when the Bill went back to the House of Commons.
§ LORD CAIRNSsaid, he doubted whether the Instruction was necessary, as without it the Committee would have ample power to alter the title or scope of the Bill, and it might set an inconvenient precedent.
§ Motion (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
§ House in Committee.
§ Clause 1 (Bills due on bank holidays to be payable on the following day).
§ LORD COLONSAYsaid, he had to propose an Amendment extending the operation of the Bill to Scotland.
§ Amendment moved, after ("banks") insert ("in England and Ireland and in Scotland respectively.")—(The Lord Colonsay.)
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ THE DUKE OF RICHMONDsaid, he thought that bills falling due on these holidays should be payable on the day preceding, or, if that day were a Sunday, on the Saturday previous. This was the law with regard to existing holidays, and he thought it would be equally consistent with uniformity and convenience to apply the same law to the new holidays. There would otherwise be this anomaly—Good Friday bills would be payable on the preceding Thursday, and Easter Sunday bills on the Saturday, while the Easter Monday bills would not be payable till Tuesday.
§ Amendment moved, line 14, leave out ("next following") and insert ("preceding.")—(The Duke of Richmond.)
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, that those who would be principally affected by the Bill were opposed to the Amendment. A circular had been sent round to the London banks connected with the clearing house; and from the Returns it appeared that none of them were in favour of the Amendment; in five the partners were divided, and the remainder—more than a dozen—were against it. The Liverpool Chamber of Commerce also opposed it, as a hardship to small traders.
§ LORD OVERSTONEthought the opinion of the House of Commons, which contained so many persons affected by the clause, and which had passed the clause in its present shape without objection, was entitled to great weight; and there was a clear and distinct statement of the bankers of London that they were in favour of the Bill as it stood. Their Lordships should, therefore, pause before they made the alteration suggested. The Amendment, moreover, would create an injustice, for persons abroad holding bills on London and knowing nothing of these holidays might present their bills too late, and lose their remedy. The true principle seemed to be that if the law interposed an obstacle to the performance of an engagement on a given day, it ought to be performed on the first subsequent opportunity—namely, on the following day. The holidays created by the Bill would all fall on the Monday, and great inconvenience would result if bills payable on Monday were made payable two days before. Saturday would be overloaded with the business of the following Sunday and Monday; whereas it was desirable that employés should be released as early on Saturday as possible, in order that they might join their families and friends in the country.
§ VISCOUNT HALIFAX, though he had at first approved the Amendment, admitted the force of the reasons just given by the noble Lord, and he therefore hoped the Amendment would not be persevered with. Indeed, he thought it would be desirable to make bills falling due on existing holidays become payable on the following day, and to abolish days of grace, which were a very anomalous provision.
§ LORD CAIRNSrecommended the withdrawal of the Amendment, believing that, after the discussion raised by his noble Friend (the Duke of Richmond), an effort would hereafter be made to attain uniformity in another manner. Irrespective of the reasons adduced by the noble Lord (Lord Overstone) against the Amendment, it should be considered that one of the provisions of the Bill was that a holiday might be proclaimed by the Crown; in which case persons abroad could not be expected to be aware of it, and to send in their bills for collection by the previous day. There really was no argument for the law that bills should be payable the day before they were due. He concurred in the propriety of abolishing days of grace.
§ THE DUKE OF RICHMONDsaid, he was satisfied with having called attention to the anomaly, and would withdraw his Amendment.
§ Amendment (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.
§ Clause agreed to.
§ Clause 2 (Provision as to notice of dishonour and presentation for honour) agreed to.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, he would now move the clause which he had in view in proposing an Instruction to the Committee. It provided that—
No person shall be compellable to make any payment or to do any act upon such bank holidays which he would not be compellable to do or make on Christmas Day or Good Friday, and that such obligation shall be transferred to the following day.
§ Clause agreed to.
§ Clause 3 (Appointment of special bank holidays by Royal proclamation).
§ LORD COLONSAY moved in page 2, line 5, to leave out ("England and Ireland"). In the proper place he would move that the Schedule extend to England and Ireland only, with the view of having a separate Schedule for Scotland.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, that in the interests of uniformity it was desirable that Scotland should have the same mercantile holidays as England. Great inconvenience might arise from having different holidays in different parts of the United Kingdom. He hoped the Scotch, reserving all ecclesiastical questions, would be willing to observe the English Whit-Monday.
§ LORD COLONSAYsaid, he could not yield to this appeal. The 15th of May, the Scotch Whitsuntide term, commonly called Whitsun-day, was the most important business day in the year as to money transactions—and it could not be made a variable day, dependent, he believed, on lunar influences, without changing the entire habit of the country.
EARL GREYasked, whether a large proportion of the population of Scotland did not already observe the English Whit-Monday as a holiday?
THE DUKE OF ARGYLLreplied that none observed it unless they had been contaminated by the English custom. In his youth he had never heard of Whit-Monday as a holiday. Whit-Sunday in Scotland always fell on the 15th of May, no matter on what day of the week, and was a most important day, rents being paid, and a large number of the working classes removed from one residence to another.
EARL NELSONsaid, he did not see why the Scotch should object to alter the day, as they at present doubtless did so when the 15th of May fell on a Sunday.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause agreed to.
§ Remaining clauses agreed to.
§ Schedule.
§ EARL BEAUCHAMP moved, after Monday, to insert Ascension Day in the list of holidays, on the ground that this would be advantageous to some as an additional secular holiday, while it would enable others to observe it as a religious festival.
§ VISCOUNT HALIFAXobjected to the Amendment. It was opposed to the principle on which their Lordships had previously acted with reference to this Bill. The great advantage of having holidays on two consecutive days had been pointed out; but with this Amendment there would be three holidays all in one month, and thus the advantage of a more equal distribution would be lost.
§ EARL BEAUCHAMPsaid, that at any rate holidays in May were likely to be suitable for out-door enjoyment.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYdoubted whether any good would be done by the proposed Amendment; but he should be sorry to vote against it, because, for reasons other than those which had been adduced, he wished the day to be observed as a holiday. But he thought 867 the proposal was not likely to be viewed with favour by many in their Lordships' House; and he was sure it would be viewed with disfavour in the other House, because it departed from the principle of the Bill, which was to legalize those holidays which were observed by general usage as purely secular holidays. He thought that this Motion was inopportune, and that it would not attain the object in view.
THE BISHOP OF WINCHESTERsaid, he hoped the Amendment would not be pressed to a division. He knew the object of the noble Earl was to give greater facilities to those who desired to observe the day; but it was not desirable that the mass of the population should confound together a State holiday and an ecclesiastical day. The present mode of observing Good Friday was not of a character to encourage the inclusion of Ascension Day in this Bill. He would, therefore, urge his noble Friend, on his own grounds, not to press his Motion to a division.
§
Motion (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.
Page 3, line 1, after ("SCHEDULE") insert:
("Bank holidays in England and Ireland.")
Line 2, leave out from ("Monday") to the end of the Schedule, and insert:
("The Monday in Whitsun week.
The first Monday in August.
The twenty-sixth day of December.")
§ On Motion of the Marquess of SALISBURY, an Amendment made that the 26th day of December should be always a holiday, whether it fell on Monday or on any other weekday.
§ LORD COLONSAYobserved, that New Year's Day and Christmas Day had been observed from time immemorial, and he proposed to introduce Good Friday, which was already observed to a great extent as a bank holiday. He moved—
At end of Schedule insert:("2. Bank Holidays in Scotland.)New Year's Day.Christmas Day.If either of the above days falls on a Sunday the next following Monday shall be a bank holiday.Good Friday.The first Monday of May.The first Monday of August.")
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYexpressed a hope that, if possible, the passage of the Bill would be expedited, so that it might come into operation before the approaching Whitsuntide.
§ The Report of the Amendments to be received on Friday next; and Standing Orders Nos. 37. and 38. to be considered in order to their being dispensed with; and Bill to be printed, as amended. (No. 120.)