THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEasked, Whether Her Majesty's Government have received a decisive answer as to the course the Spanish Government intended to pursue with respect to the 766 Tornado; and whether a Tribunal has been specially constituted for the Trial of that Ship? It seemed to him high time that proper steps should be taken to obtain for the sailors and officers of the Tornado compensation for the hardships which they had been compelled to endure. The Papers laid before their Lordships showed that these men were captured in the vessel on the 20th of August last, and were grievously maltreated. Some of them were wounded, some were put in irons, and they were all very badly treated, being kept for weeks without any water for the purpose of ablution, and without any sort of comfort or even decency. They were subsequently put in prison at Cadiz, and questioned in such a manner that they were forced to give answers which they subsequently acknowledged to be false. It was only in consequence of the vigorous interference of Her Majesty's Government that they were eventually released. They had since applied to the Foreign Office, for some compensation; but that had been refused on the ground that the trial of the ship must take place before any decision could be made upon their claims. That, he thought, was very hard upon these poor men. They had been wrongly kept in prison several months, and there certainly was no reason for liberating them in January or February which did not exist in the previous August. Then they were actually robbed of their money and of the tools which, to some of them, were necessary to carry on their trade, and had thus been deprived of the means of obtaining employment. According to the last Papers which had been presented on the subject, there was no chance of these men getting their claim allowed for a very considerable time. If it were true that the ship was really a Chilian ship and that the Spaniards were really entitled to seize her, these men would have a remedy against those who had put them on board what was falsely represented to be an English merchant ship. At present they were unable to get redress from either party. Was it not intolerable, he would ask, that English sailors should be treated in such a manner? Nothing could be more admirable than the reasoning of Lord Stanley throughout his despatch. What we had a right to insist on was that there should be a fair trial. The ship was captured under the exercise of belligerent rights; but what we said was that there should be a proper trial—a trial in whatever form the Spanish Go- 767 vernment might please, but one which, in substance, must be in conformity with justice and with International Law. It had been stated in reply that the parties concerned should be tried. That language had been continued till the middle of May, but what was the fact? On the 8th of February, a decree was pronounced in the case of the Alice Ward—a case somewhat analogous to that of the Tornado—by which it was laid down that the judicial courts could not take cognizance of the affair. That decree had been recognized by the Spanish Government. Lord Stanley urged over and over that the case of the Tornado should be tried by a competent tribunal, and all that time the Spanish Government kept up the belief that it was to be treated judicially. Lord Stanley had allowed a great deal of correspondence to take place not on the question of a trial, but on the merits of the case. Unfortunately the noble Lord had strayed into that style of correspondence also, and a great deal of irrelevant matter had been introduced into what ought only to have been a discussion as to a trial. He was not asking too much when he insisted that British subjects should not be defrauded of their rights. If the tribunal to which the matter had been referred was incompetent, the Spanish Government were bound to give up the ship, and our Government should not lose a day in compelling them to do so or to take the consequences of a refusal.
§ THE EARL OF MALMESBURYI think my noble Friend will agree that in the present state of the House he can hardly expect me to go into all the details of this question. The last accounts we have from the Spanish Government are dated, I think, the 20th of June, and have already been published. According to them the case is still before the Council of State of the Spanish Government and has proceeded no further. My noble Friend knows what is called cosas d' Espana; and he is well aware of the extreme difficulty of overcoming the passive resistance in which the Government of that country is so peculiarly clever. I need not remind my noble Friend of the great difference between the case of the Victoria and that of the Tornado. Without wishing to prejudge the case of the owners of the Tornado, they are not in as favourable a position as the owners of the Victoria. Nothing could have been more plain than the outrage done to the latter vessel. The Spaniards could not deny it. They at 768 once admitted it. The only thing Her Majesty's Government can do in the present case of the Tornado is to accept the promises of the Spanish Government, that the case will be fairly tried. My noble Friend knows that the sailors have been released. The time may come, of course, when our patience, even measured by the experience we have had of Spanish cases, would be exhausted. For the present, I can assure the noble Marquess that my noble Friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs does not lose sight of this matter. It is, as I have stated, only ten days since the last despatches were received from Spain.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEhoped the Government had not agreed to accept any tribunal which the Spanish Government chose to nominate for the purpose.
§ THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, the Government had not agreed to accept anything, because they did not know the propositions of the Spanish Government. The case was hung up.