HL Deb 20 April 1866 vol 182 cc1760-3
THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAM

, in rising to ask the Lord President a Question respecting the arrangements made by the Privy Council for the experimental treatment of animals suffering from the cattle plague, said, that as the period for which the Cattle Diseases Act was passed had nearly expired, he thought it desirable that the public should be made acquainted with the result of its operation; and as some special circumstances had been brought under his notice, he had thought it right to put this Question to his noble Friend. Under the Act of Parliament passed this Session compulsory powers were given to slaughter all animals infected with the disease, and also animals which might have come in contact with them; and these powers had been delegated to the local authorities. The object was of course to put an end to the disease, or, in other words, to "stamp it out." The result had been that the disease was stamped out in certain districts, though at the cost of a considerable sacrifice of that description of property. The Act also gave power for the retention of cattle for experimental treatment—a most valuable power, no doubt, if properly exercised, with care that such animals were kept in proper places where the existence would not affect the cattle of other owners. It had recently been communicated to the magistrates of the Buckinghamshire Quar- ter Sessions, who had been exercising the powers for the compulsory slaughter of cattle, that without any notice to them certain cattle had been retained for treatment under very dangerous circumstances. It was stated, and stated correctly, that an Order in Council had been issued, which did not, however, appear in the Gazette, giving the power to retain animals for experimental treatment. And power was vested in the Privy Council, who had vested it in local authorities, who had again delegated it to certain individuals. It appeared to be the fact that ten animals were being treated in a yard from which the drainage ran into a neighbourhood where it was feared its effects might prove injurious. This yard was also in close proximity to a high road, and was not a place that would have been selected by the local authorities for the treatment of diseased animals. The people of the neigh-bourhood had no objection to experimental treatment when it seemed to offer a chance of saving animals; but they objected to the place in which such treatment had been applied to those ten animals. It would appear that those animals had been treated under the authority of the Royal Commissioners; and he, therefore, wished to ask the Lord President, What Arrangements have been made by the Privy Council for the experimental Treatment of Animals suffering from Cattle Plague, under the provisions of the Cattle Diseases Act; how many animals have been or now are under Treatment; and whether the Assent of the Local Authorities of the District had been obtained in such Cases, or any Communication made to them?

EARL GRANVILLE

had not had an opportunity of communicating with the Royal Commissioners on the subject of the noble Duke's question. The Government had transferred the whole matter of such experiments to the Royal Commissioners, and had given them authority for the purpose of conducting their investigations. Very eminent men were on the Commission, and they had been conducting their inquiries with great assiduity. The Commissioners had thought it better not to communicate to the Government the results of particular experiments, but intended to reserve all for one Report, which, he believed, would be ready by the end of next mouth. That Report might make it necessary for the Government to order further experiments; but, at present, they thought it better to leave the matter in the hands of the Commissioners. Some applications had been made by individuals for permission to make experiments. Only two of those applications were of any importance. One was from Mr. Nicholls in Scotland; but the Privy Council did not think the case was one for exceptional powers, and they were confirmed in that opinion by the Secretary of the Aberdeen Association, which had shown such remarkable zeal in respect of the cattle disease, The other was from Baron Rothschild, and their Lordships were no doubt aware that Mr. Worms' treatment had been tried on animals belonging to that hon. Gentleman; but, from the information which had been received by the Privy Council, they were not led to believe that Mr. Worms' treatment was of a successful character. Unless the strongest grounds were laid for the application it would be impossible to give particular individuals a permission which was refused to the farmers generally. He would make inquiry of the Royal Commissioners on the subject of the case brought under their Lordships' notice by the noble Duke.

THE MARQUESS OF BATH

said, he desired to call the attention of their Lordships to an inconvenience under the Orders of the 24th of March. In them a most valuable provision was contained in Schedule C, by which no licence for the removal of cattle could be granted unless the owner of the cattle made a declaration that they had been on his farm for twenty eight days. There could be no objection to that; but the inconvenience arose in the case of calves, as the farmers had been in the habit of moving them at seven or eight days' old:—so that the Order now necessitated the killing of calves, as the farmers could not keep them. He should suggest that if any amended Orders were issued the point should be considered.

THE EARL OF CARNARVON

said, he understood the noble Duke who put the Question to say that in the case he referred to the Order had never appeared in the Gazette. Under the Act it was necessary it should be so published, otherwise it was valueless.

EARL GRANVILLE

said, the observation of the noble Earl involved a legal point, but he did not think it was ever intended that a separate Order in Council should be made and published in the Gazette for each cow that had to be experimentally treated.

THE EARL OF CARNARVON

said, he did not suggest that, but the General Or- der affecting the retention of cattle for experimental treatment he understood had not been published. There was another point. He did not see in the Act any authority vested in the Privy Council to delegate to the Royal Commissioners or to any person their permissive power in respect to animals coming under the operation of the Act.

House adjourned at half past Six o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.