THIRD READING. BILL PASSED, (Hansard, 2 August 1860)

LORD KINNAIRD
said, ho had given notice of sonic Amendments, to which he 468 wished to draw the attention of the House. Those Amendments had been carefully prepared, and, with one exception, agreed to by the deputation of the Miners Association, by the agents, and by the noble Lord, at whoso instance several alterations had been made in the Bill. He had also consulted with the hon. Gentleman who so ably carried this Bill through the Lower House of Parliament, and with others who supported him during its progress. If, therefore, their Lordships adopted his Amendments he had the best reason to believe they would not be disagreed from by the other House. The first Amendment to which he wished to draw attention referred to what was called the education clause, which any affected children under twelve 3'ears of age—an age at which he thought children should not be allowed to work in mines at all. It was considered advisable, however, that the rule should be relaxed, provided those between ten and twelve produced a certificate that they could read and write. When the Bill reached their Lordships' House provision was made to enable these children to continue their education while employed in the mines, and an Amendment was introduced providing the alternative that, if not able to read and write, they might be employed on producing a certificate from a schoolmaster that they were attending school five hours during the week. What chance was there that children of that age, after being thirteen or fourteen hours at work underground, would derive any advantage from education under such circumstances? The Inspector for the west of Scotland agreed with him that the age of admission to work in mines should be restricted to twelve years, and that boys, after being at work underground from four A.M. till five P.M., should rather be allowed to amuse themselves in the open air than be confined in the evening to a schoolroom. The noble Lord concluded by moving an Amendment to the second Clause, the effect of which was to take away the power of employing children under twelve years of age, on certificate that they were attending school five hours a week.

§ LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY
hoped their Lordships would not agree to this Amendment, which would be most detrimental to the interests of these poor children. The Bill originally provided that all children should have a certificate, and, in addition to that they were to continue at school for a certain number of years. The alteration made by their Lord- 469 ships was not to strike out this clause, but to give to the masters an alternative that, while the children were employed, it should he obligatory on them to see that they received a certain amount of education. It seemed to him that, so far from this being: an injury to the working classes, it would be an advantage to them. If the noble Lord's Amendment were adopted, the result would be that, young persons would he compelled to seek work where the restriction as to education was not enforced.

§ THE DUKE OF SOMERSET
said, it was clearly contemplated by the promoters of the Bill that the boys should be educated while working in the mine; but the alternative was still left, that either a boy should have learned to read and write before he came to the mine, or else that, if he came, not having yet acquired that knowledge, he should attend school afterwards, lie thought it would not be fair to set aside that arrangement, hut the Bill should be kept as it now stood.

LORD KINNAIRD
then moved the omission of the words from Clause 7 (Mines to which Part 2 of Act is to extend) "works in connection with coal, or with any disused or exhausted coal mine." He said that the effect of retaining these words would ho to exclude from the operation of the Bill the great majority of iron-stone mines, and in Scotland not above twenty mines would come under it, while a very large proportion of what were termed black-rag mines, employing many thousands of people, would be totally excluded from the Act. When the words were adopted it was represented that the Act would still include all the dangerous mines; but a subsequent inquiry had proved that not to be the fact. The Inspector's Report showed that many of the iron-stone mines were it a dangerous condition, and they had often been called upon to report upon the causes of those accidents, explosions of what the men called "sulphur" being quite as frequent in them as in coal mines.

LORD WYNFORD
said, that the noble Lords most interested in the subject had left town; but at their request he had to state that the degree of danger attending the working of iron mines was a matter of opinion, and that ho did not think there was really any more danger attending iron mines than coal mines. He trusted that under these circumstances the noble Duke opposite would support the clause as agreed to on a former occasion.

§ THE DUKE OF SOMERSET
said, the present proposal was in fact to recommit the Bill for the convenience of noble Lords who did not come down to the House when the Bill was discussed at its former stage. The Bill was then very fully discussed. He himself read several of the extracts which the noble Lord had just quoted; but after the decision which the House had arrived at he did not feel himself justified in sanctioning any interference with the clause. He hoped, therefore, the Amendment would be withdrawn, especially as it would be interfering in some measure with the functions of the other House.