§ LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEYsaid, it was now nearly a year since he put a similar question to the one on the paper to the noble Earl opposite, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade—namely, Whether Her Majesty's Government intend to introduce any Measure in the present Session of Parliament to relieve the Shipping Interest from Passing Tolls and other Burdens? At the time he put that question last year, he was told that a measure was under the consideration of the Government to relieve the shipping interest from either a portion or from the whole of the burdens which pressed upon it. So long a time having elapsed, he thought he was now entitled to ask the Question again, and he did so with the confident hope and expectation that Her Majesty's Government would be able to inform their Lordships whether they had prepared a measure for the purpose. He also had more confidence in putting this Question, because the Government was in possession of all the information which, he apprehended, was necessary to come to a decision upon it; and moreover they had already expressed an opinion as to the course which ought to be pursued for the relief of the shipping interest. It was now more than six years since the right hon. Gentleman, the present Chancellor of the Exchequer—who then also filled the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer—announced to Parliament the measures which the Government intended to place before Parliament, and he informed the other House that a measure had 385 been prepared for the purpose of relieving the shipping interest from the burdens of passing tolls, light dues, stamp duties upon insurances, and charter parties, and that there were grievances and burdens which the shipping interest ought not to bear and from which they ought to be relieved. He would now ask the noble Earl whether Her Majesty's Government intended to bring forward any measure of this nature in the course of the present Session. He should confine his observations to those matters on which, from their nature, there could be no difference of opinion, for it was admitted on all sides that these were grievances, and which ought to be removed. He thought it the more necessary to call the attention of their Lordships to this matter, because he perceived, with regret, at most of the recent meetings of the shipping interest, a disposition on the part of the shipowners to look in a different direction for relief from their present distress. He was not, however, astonished at that, seeing the encouragement they had received from the letter of the noble Earl the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, in answer to the memorial of the Chamber of Commerce at Greenock during the recess, in which the noble Lord stated, through Mr. Hammond, that he had seen with great regret—
That the apprehensions that were entertained by many persons of the probable effect of the abolition of the navigation laws have been realized, and that the efforts of Her Majesty's Government have hitherto proved unavailing to obtain for the shipping of England that reciprocity of the liberal measures she has granted to other nations which she was entitled to expect.He (Lord Stanley of Alderley) would ask their Lordships whether it was not likely that the shipowners would consider that they had received the greatest encouragement from that letter to prosecute their demands, and to urge Her Majesty's Government to recommend the Legislature, if not a return to the navigation laws, at least to retrace its steps as far as possible in that direction? The memorial of the Chamber of Commerce at Greenock, to which the letter written by the noble Earl had reference, complained of the distress of the shipping interest, and prayed that Her Majesty would by an Order in Council put in operation the restrictions she was empowered to enforce against non-reciprocating countries. He hoped he should hear from Her Majesty's Government that there was no intention on their part to give encouragement to 386 the expectations of those gentlemen, who looked with alarm and apprehension to the effect of the repeal of the navigation laws on their interests. He should be sorry to hear that Her Majesty had been obliged to have recourse to a retaliatory policy against non-reciprocating nations. Let their Lordships consider for a moment the position of the mercantile marine of this country. What were the countries which had not given us complete reciprocity? The only two countries of any importance were Spain and France. With regard to Spain, he granted that she had not given us any reciprocity whatever; but the whole trade of Spain was comparatively insignificant, and if it was thrown entirely open the advantage to British shipping would be infinitessimal. With respect to France, we had already a fair share of her trade, and one of the greatest difficulties to its extension had been the continued existence in this country of certain local burdens, which France always made the ground for a refusal of a reciprocity in a commercial treaty. The United States of America had given us a complete reciprocity, as respected the general trade, and what they had not reciprocated with us, was the coasting trade, which, however, included the trade with California. However much this was to be regretted as a churlish return for the liberal manner in which they had been dealt with by the country, the advantage that would accrue to British shipping if the whole of the American coasting trade was thrown open, would be quite insignificant. He should be prepared at any time to give his opinion of the great benefits which British navigation had derived from the repeal of the navigation laws. The last four or five years had no doubt been exceptional, both as to the sudden spring which the shipping interest received, and the great demand for shipping which existed during the first Crimean war, and then the Indian mutiny. If the navigation laws had been still in force in that interval, and the English shipowners had, by any means, been compelled to find a sufficient number of ships to meet the whole of that sudden demand, their ships would now have been thrown on their hands, and they would thus have been subjected to still greater depression and additional distress. He trusted the shipowners would seek relief, not from any reversal of the existing policy, but from a remission of those bur- 387 dens which had been a constant source of grievance to them, and regarded as such by Members on both sides of their Lordships' House; and that he should hear from Her Majesty's Government that they were now prepared to carry into effect the pledge given while they were in office in 1852, that they would introduce a Bill for the relief of the shipping interest from passing tolls and other burdens.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMOREsaid, that into the policy of the repeal of the navigation laws, on which the noble Lord had sought to raise a discussion, he should not enter, because he was not a Member of their Lordships' House when the repeal took place, and also because it had really nothing to do with the question of which the noble Lord had given notice. Before, however, answering the question he wished to correct a slight inaccuracy in the statement of the noble Lord, and to supply some omissions. In the first place, it was not correct to say that his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated in 1852 that he had a Bill prepared for the relief of the shipping interest by the repeal of those passing tolls and other burdens; but it was true that his right hon. Friend then stated that he was prepared to expend £100,000 towards that object. When the Government of which the noble Lord was a Member came into office in 1852, they did not propose any measure for the relief of these burdens for a considerable period—not, indeed, until the year 1856. Last Session this matter was for a considerable time under the consideration of the Government, and he had himself studied the question with the greatest care. Having done so, he must now tell the noble Lord that the Government were not at present prepared to introduce any measure on the subject, and for the simple reason that they could not see their way to any satisfactory arrangement. The anomalies of many of these tolls were admitted, but it would be useless to occupy their Lordships' time with the discussion of a plan that would be open to all sorts of objections; and he could not therefore express a hope that the Government would be able, within any specific time, to submit any measure on the subject to Parliament.