§ THE EARL OF HARDWICKESeeing the noble Lord the Secretary at War in his place, I beg to ask him a question, of which, however, I have not given notice. The noble Lord has doubtless read in the newspapers, as I have, that very serious changes have apparently taken place in the state of affairs at Canton. It appears that the English have been obliged to retreat from Whampoa; that a portion of the British fleet has been attacked by a squadron of junks, which retired in good order; that in consequence the Admiral has been compelled to abandon the position he had taken up in the wrecks of the factories in Canton, and that at the same time he burnt down some of the suburbs of Canton. I wish to ask the noble Lord whether he has received any despatches to that effect, and if such despatches have been received, why they have not been made public, or laid upon the table of the House? We read at the same time, that at Singapore circumstances have taken place imperilling the safety of the British residents there. We hear of these events through two channels, they are apparently true, and therefore we may presume that the Government are informed of them. In the present state of public opinion I think it is highly necessary that we should be informed whether any such intelligence has been received.
§ LORD PANMUREThe question which the noble Earl has put, without any notice whatever, is of somewhat an important character. In the first place, I cannot charge my memory with reference to the whole transactions to which the noble Lord has referred, because, of course, so far as they relate to the naval operations, no 1882 despatches have been addressed to me. I have, however, received a letter from the officer commanding the troops at Hong Kong, stating that a company of a regiment had been engaged in burning certain portions of the suburbs of Canton, and that some casualties had taken place in that transaction. These particulars will appear in the papers to-morrow.
§ THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHI think, my Lords, that this is a question which ought rather to be asked of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. I therefore beg to ask him whether he has received any despatches relating to the action at Macao and the retirement from Whampoa? Also whether any account has been received by him, giving an account of the burning of the suburbs of Canton?
§ THE EARL OF CLARENDONDespatches have been received from Admiral Seymour, stating the reasons why he thought it necessary to withdraw from the Dutch Folly, which he occupied, and why he thought it necessary to destroy a portion of the suburbs of Canton, which enabled the Chinese to act hostilely against the fleet. That retirement also was necessary for the better protection of Hong Kong, where disturbances had taken place, and where rewards had been offered for incendiarism and the assassination of British subjects.
§ THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHThe noble Earl will see the extreme importance of our knowing when the suburbs of Canton were destroyed. If the Admiral had determined to remain in occupation of the fort, which he seems to have entrenched, he may have been justified in destroying the suburbs which gave a cover to the enemy; but if he had destroyed the fort and had determined on retiring from Canton, there was no military or moral justification for such destruction; but it would appear to be an act of deliberate and useless vengeance. It is, therefore, highly important that we should know when, and under what circumstances, the destruction of the suburbs of Canton took place.
§ LORD PANMUREI am really surprised that the noble Earl should have made an observation tending to misrepresent the actions of a British Admiral without waiting to know under what circumstances the act of hostility to which allusion has been made was committed. I must say, my Lords, that I blush for the conversation which has just taken place, as 1883 tending to throw blame, in the eyes of the country, upon a gallant officer who has only acted for the maintenance of the honour and interests of the country, and who has at the same time to maintain his own position under very difficult circumstances. The whole circumstances of the change of position are these:—The Admiral was placed in such a position at the Dutch Folly that he found his ships of war were so situated that war junks coming up the river and sinking impediments in his passage, would have stopped the return of the ships of war. Finding himself in a narrow river, and in a bad military position, he withdrew, not from before Canton, but to another position, called the Bird's Nest Fort, close in the neighbourhood of Canton, below the passage, and where the ships would not be exposed to annoyance from the junks of the enemy, but could lie in perfect safety. With respect to the Admiral's destroying the suburbs of Canton, I stake my character as a Peer of Parliament and a gentleman of England, that he has done nothing more than fair warfare would justify him in doing: that he has committed none of the pure acts of cruelty which the noble Earl has represented. I believe that Sir Michael Seymour's character stands as high, as an officer of the navy, and as a humane and Christian gentleman, as that of any man in this country.
§ THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHThe noble Lord appears to have misunderstood me. I stated distinctly that everything depended upon the time at which this was done. If the Admiral was about to retain his position, then he would be justified in resorting to such measures, inasmuch as burning the suburbs would deprive the enemy of the cover which those suburbs afforded; but if, on the other hand, he had determined on a retirement altogether from his position before Canton—which he has done by retiring to the Bird's Nest Fort—the burning of the suburbs would be unjustifiable as a military operation.
§ LORD PANMUREI deny it.