VISCOUNT DUNGANNONasked the Postmaster General whether any arrangement had been come to by Her Majesty's Government relative to the steam-packet communication between Holyhead and Kingstown, what was the nature of such arrangement, and when likely to be carried into effect. He had brought the subject before the House on more than one occa 339 sion in the last Session of Parliament, and at the close of the Session the noble Duke (the Duke of Argyll) had held out hope that some definite arrangement would be come to with the Dublin Steam Packet Company. But he (Viscount Dungannon) was subsequently informed that these negotiations had been broken off in consequence of the noble Duke insisting on the journey from Euston-square to Dublin being made in eleven hours, irrespective of the state of the wind or of the weather. He understood that an agreement had been recently signed, by which the steam-packet company were to build a larger class of vessels for the traffic from Holyhead to Dublin. At present the accommodation was by no means satisfactory; neither was the speed. He hoped the noble Duke would be able to give a satisfactory answer on the subject, as it was his (Viscount Dungannon's) intention to bring the matter to an issue in the course of this Session.
THE DUKE OF ARGYLLsaid, he was glad of an opportunity of explaining the position of the question as far as the Post Office was concerned. The noble Viscount had referred exclusively to the accommodation of passengers; but, however important passenger accommodation might be, that was not exactly the question for the consideration of the Post Office. It was his (the Duke of Argyll's) duty to guard the interests of the public of this country and Ireland as respected the transmission of the mails. The noble Marquess (the Marquess of Clanricarde) had suggested, last Session, that the question was not a postal question; but all he (the Duke of Argyll) could say was, that if the noble Marquess could devise any scheme for the purpose of increasing the passenger accommodation without impairing the service of the Post Office, he should only be too happy to adopt it. The noble Marquess, however, would find, that though Parliament had made it a point to facilitate the intercourse between England and Ireland by encouraging the passenger traffic, the main ground for large grants of the public money was always the transmission of the mails. In 1853 the Committee of the House of Commons which sat on the subject had treated the question throughout as a question of postal accommodation, the passenger accommodation being treated as secondary. The result of the inquiries of the Committee was, that, after examining many persons Connected with the steam-packet companies in England and Ireland, and some of the 340 most competent officers connected with the great English railway companies, they arrived at the conclusion that the communication from this side—that was, from London to Dublin—might be easily reduced to about eleven hours; and if the noble Viscount would peruse the evidence he would agree with him (the Duke of Argyll) that the Committee were fully justified in coming to that conclusion. Amongst the witnesses was Captain Huish, the manager of the London and North-Western Railway, who had spent considerable time in Ireland, making inquiries upon the subject, and who put in a detailed plan that the united companies were prepared to act upon for completing the communication between London and Dublin, not in eleven hours, but in ten hours and forty-one minutes. Soon after the Committee sat, negotiations were opened between the companies concerned and the Government. But in order to explain the difficulties that had arisen, he must first explain the existing arrangements. At the present moment there were now two mails daily from London to Dublin, one leaving at 5.0 in the afternoon, and the other within four hours after—at 8.45. Of course the interval between the two mails would appear to be an unnecessarily short one, and it was perhaps natural to suppose that almost any arrangement which would provide one morning and one night mail would be an improvement both for postal and passenger communication. Accordingly all the plans which had been suggested, and which were founded upon the report of the Committee, had involved this consequence, that the present 5.0 mail should be abandoned, but the 8.45 p.m. mail retained, and that for the 5.0 mail a new morning mail should be substituted to reach Dublin the same night. But observe the consequences which would result to the Post Office from the adoption of such a scheme. At present the 5.0 mail from London carried the letters to Dublin sufficiently early for the next morning's delivery and transmission into the Irish provinces by the morning mails, and if they gave up that mail they would have to insist upon it that its functions should be performed by the 8.45 mail. They could not do without it. The postal service of Ireland would not only receive no acceleration, but be immensely damnified by the plan unless those conditions were fulfilled. On the other hand, if a morning mail were established, it must reach Dublin in sufficient time for 341 the evening delivery and the transmission of the letters to the provinces by the evening mails. These were conditions which were essential for the efficiency of the postal service between this country and Ireland; but the companies had not hitherto assented to a plan by which these conditions should be fulfilled, and it was a fact that if, from any circumstances, the mails were thrown out, the people of Belfast, of Galway, and other distant parts of Ireland would not only receive no advantage from the system, but be materially injured; in short, that the commercial advices from Liverpool and the West of England—say, for Belfast—would be thrown Out from twelve to twenty hours. This being so, he (the Duke of Argyll) thought he was acting not only in the interest of the department in London, but in the interest of the Irish people themselves and of the commercial public in the great cities of Ireland, when he insisted that the conditions of the postal service should be such as to secure a regularity of communication as good, at least, as that which at present existed. He could assure their Lordships that there was no blame attributable to the Post Office here, although he had been informed that the Irish people were under the impression that, but for the Post Office, some great national good would be conferred, and that conditions were insisted upon which were unreasonable and unnecessary, and having reference solely to the departmental convenience of the Post Office in London. He wished to explain, however, that in insisting upon the conditions referred to, the Post Office was really guarding the interests of the Irish public themselves, and not by any means exclusively the interests of the department in London. The duty imposed upon him was to point out the conditions which were deemed to be essential for preserving the efficiency of the Irish mail communication, and also to see that those conditions were complied with. As to the class of steam vessels employed, and the rate at which they performed the passage across St. George's Channel—by the evidence given before the Committee it appeared that during a period of three years the Banshee had performed the passage in tolerably smooth water at the rate of eighteen miles an hour, and that her average speed was 16¾; miles an hour. If larger and more powerful vessels were employed, perhaps the passage by sea might be accomplished in as short a time as three 342 hours and a quarter. In conclusion, he begged to assure noble Lords connected with Ireland that he was as anxious as they to have such conditions complied with as would secure alike a better postal service and a better passenger communication between the two countries.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid, that the passenger communication between England and Ireland was at the present moment disgraceful, though he believed the House of Commons would not grudge a liberal sum in order to place it upon a decent footing. He viewed with some alarm, however, these propositions for attaining such enormous rates of speed. In binding down the proprietors of steam boats to perform the passage at a high rate of speed it was necessary to bear in mind that such things as fogs and thick weather had to be encountered; and if they were compelled to drive the steamers at the rate of eighteen miles an hour, they would not be able to stop them within a mile or three-quarters of a mile from the moment of reversing the engines. Thus they would risk life and property to a fearful extent by insisting on a speed being maintained to perform that which was certainly a wonderful Post-office service. Of course, it was only with the postal service that his noble Friend had to deal; but the efficiency and safety of the passenger communication were matters which did not the less demand the care and attention of the Government of which the noble Duke was a member.
VISCOUNT DUNGANNONexpressed himself satisfied with the answer of the noble Duke, as well as with the turn the debate upon the subject had taken; but he still hoped some measure would be adopted for affording considerably increased convenience to the passenger traffic between this country and Ireland.