HL Deb 13 July 1854 vol 135 cc133-5

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.

THE EARL OF MALMESBURY

said, he desired to call their Lordships' attention to the present state of the forest. Notwithstanding all the legislation that had taken place upon this subject within the last five years, he was sorry to say that the state of feeling in the forest was worse than he ever remembered it to have been before. It had been supposed that the destruction of the deer would tend to improve the morals of the people; but so far from that having this result, it appeared to have had a contrary effect, for there had been no fewer than twenty-one incendiary fires in various parts of the New Forest between February and May last. This would give their Lordships an idea of the state of feeling which existed. The fact was that the laxity which had prevailed for a great number of years—he might say for upwards of a century—with respect to the rights of the commoners and of the Crown, had been followed by a sudden and severe reaction, and the consequence of this reaction had been that a vast number of those people had been stopped from exercising rights which for many years before they had been allowed to exercise without any molestation. Their Lordships would see that at this moment, when coals were 25s. per ton, turf was extremely valuable, and the right of cutting it was a matter of considerable importance, not merely to rich proprietors and their tenants, but also, and more particularly, to the poor. If his noble Friend opposite would consent to introduce a clause, preserving the right of turbary to those who had enjoyed it before the year 1800, it would let in a great number of persons who were now excluded, and would be received as a very valuable boon. He was particularly anxious, also, that in a country remarkable for its beauty no useless destruction of timber should take place; and he wished to call the attention of the noble Earl at the head of Her Majesty's Government to the fact—which a noble Friend of his upon the cross-benches (the Duke of Buccleuch) would corroborate—that within the last two or three years some magnificent trees had been cut down, which were perfectly valueless, either for sale or ship-building, and could only have been felled through carelessness; and to express a hope that such orders would be issued as that a repetition of this might be prevented.

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH

could assure their Lordships that in one particular instance a clump of trees had been cut down, which was not only an ornament, but a landmark in that country. Every single tree had been swept away, and a remarkable feature of the country, to which the inhabitants were very much attached, entirely destroyed. These trees were wholly valueless for ship-building; and having had considerable experience in the management both of old and young timber, he would venture to say, as an additional reason why these trees should have been left standing, that it was very important to the growth of young timber that a sufficient quantity of old timber should be left for shelter, and to check the violence of the wind.

THE EARL OF ABERDEEN

said, this was the first he had heard upon the subject referred to by the noble Earl opposite, and by his noble Friend upon the cross-benches (the Duke of Buccleuch). He did not know at what time this destruction had taken place, but, whenever it was, he should regard such proceedings as had been described as amounting to wanton destruction instead of being a proper administration of the forest affairs. It never could be the object of the Government, or anybody having the management of the forest, to sanction a proceeding of that kind; and he could only assure the noble Earl that although his noble and learned Friend behind him (Lord Lyndhurst) considered him a "rock" and a "stone" in public matters, with respect to this question of old timber he had a very tender heart indeed.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY

was understood to consent to the introduction of a clause preserving the right of turbary to the houses which had enjoyed it before 1800, limiting the right, however, to cutting for use, and not for sale, and at the same time providing for the protection of the herbage.

On Question, agreed to; House in Committee accordingly; Amendments made; the Report thereof to be received to-morrow.