HL Deb 30 May 1848 vol 99 cc82-5

The MARQUESS of CLANRICARDE moved the Second Reading of this Bill, observing, that within the last few years there had been notorious cases of persons being turned out of their dwellings in Ireland without regard to hour or season, and it had been stated that some persons so evicted had perished by the roadside or in the fields. He alluded to the case of a Mr. Blake, but exculpated that gentleman from the proceedings which had taken place on his property, as they had been carried on without his knowledge, and had been put a stop to, as soon as he became acquainted with them. The object of the present measure was to provide that, before persons should be evicted, the landlord should give previous notice of his intention to evict, in order that the poor tenants might not be subjected to the privations which, under the present system, no doubt many had endured. There was also a restriction as to the hour and days on which notices of eviction should be given to the guardians of the poor. The other clauses related more particularly to the carrying out of the details of this Bill. It might, perhaps, be objected that the range and scope of the measure were too extensive: if that should be so, he could only say that he should have no objection, in Committee, to limit its operations.

LORD MONTEAGLE

was favourable to affording means of succour and protection to evicted destitute persons, but objected to the Bill, as not giving a proper remedy. On the contrary, it would introduce difficulties into the law of Ireland, which would be infinitely more dangerous to the administration of the poor-law itself than even to the management of landed property. With respect to Mr. Blake, the noble Marquess admitted that he was not deserving of blame for what had occurred on his property; but had not Mr. Blake, nevertheless, been struck out of the commission on account of those occurrences? The present Bill was founded on two special cases; the one being the case of Mr. St. George, the Member for Galway, who had had an opportunity of justifying himself; and the other the case of Mr. Blake, who was now exculpated. He thought their Lordships should be exceedingly cautious in respect to giving their assent to a general Bill founded on special cases. If, for the recovery of rent, distraining were resorted to, every one would at once see that the superior landlord must sell the effects of the poor occupiers, and thus the matter must be brought within the cognisance of the poor-law guardians. Now then, he would ask, what must be the consequence of bringing every case of ejectment under the notice of the poor-law guardians? There was a question which he begged to put, namely, whether the present measure had been submitted to the consideration of the Poor Law Commissioners, and whether his noble Friends who now constituted Her Majesty's Government were disposed to lay before the House the opinions pronounced upon it by those Commissioners? To him it appeared that the effect of the measure would be to create a new status of pauperism, which had never been contemplated in the previous condition of the law; for by this Bill they would give the evicted tenant a right that he could not otherwise acquire: for the Bill declared that shelter should be provided for him, and the right to enjoy that shelter might, perchance, last for the whole of his life; and, moreover, it was provided that, in addition to shelter, he should be entitled to relief outside of the workhouse; that he should, in short, possess the same rights as those enjoyed by the sick, the old, or those who were permanently disabled. Great efforts had, in similar debates, been made to affix blame to the ordinary Irish landlord; but he would lay before them a case in which the Crown was the landlord. He would read the particulars of the case from the extracts which he held in his hand:— Case of the Crown lands of Ballykililure, 609 acres, 80 tenants, 463 denominations; population, near 500. On the 26th of May, 1847, the sub-sheriff of the county attended on the lands, and the whole of the fourteen defendants, with their families, were turned out of their dwellings, and their holdings were placed in charge of a bailiff. Their houses, with the exception of such as were required for the location of a party of twelve police, to prevent any attempt at repossession on the part of the evicted persons, were either levelled to the ground, or rendered uninhabitable. The following was an extract from the petition of the evicted tenants:— That on the 26th of May, your petitioners were turned out of their houses and dwellings; that they are now deprived of their cabins, and lying out in the open air with their wives and families, who are in a state of destitution and starvation for want of food and raiment, and are thereby subject to fevers and disorders prevalent in the country. That your petitioners, if they are deprived of their crops and tillage, will, with their families, be thrown on the world, and doomed to ruin and starvation; and they solemnly assure you that a part of the tenants so dispossessed are in a raging fever, lying in the open air. Further, he should read an extract from the report of the Clerk of Quitrents:— I conceive that under no circumstances whatever should any of those parties be restored to possession, or suffered to occupy any part of the land. He also begged their attention to the report of the Woods and Forests of the 15th of July, 1847:— A summary process of ejection was used by the sheriff of the county, when they were severally with their families, put out of possession, and their tenements levelled. Proceedings were still pending against the remaining occupiers, and in the event of their refusing to acknowledge the 'landlord's' rights, the same course would be pursued, by their forcible removal from the ground and houses. The following was from the second report, March 10, 1848:— It is the intention that every one of the present occupiers of these lands who shall not accept the offer of emigration shall be summarily dispossessed, under the injunction which shall be immediately issued, and their houses demolished. First emigration, 173; second emigration, 236; total 409 persons. By whom did their Lordships suppose that those deeds were done? By no others than his noble Friends who now sat near him. By whom was the order for dispossessing these poor people signed? By no other than by Lord Morpeth, as Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests. In speaking of this Bill, however, he wished not to be misunderstood. He thought, with the promoters of the measure, that evicted tenants ought to be taken care of; but he did not think that this was the best mode of accomplishing that object; and in his opinion the plan of bringing it under the cognisance of the poor-law guardians would be a most effectual method of striking a formidable blow against the administration of the poor-law in Ireland.

The EARL of GLENGALL

opposed the Bill, and contended that, if it became law, every case connected with the letting of land must be submitted to the poor-law guardians.

The MARQUESS of CLANRICARDE

shortly replied, vindicating the principle of the poor-law. No person could be relieved under that law unless he was destitute, and he was relieved only so long as he continued destitute. He hoped, before long, no outdoor relief would be given in Ireland. No person ought to have outdoor relief until the workhouse was filled.

Bill read 2a.

House adjourned.