§ The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEmoved that the report on the Landed Property (Ireland) Bill, with the Amendments, be received. The first of these Amendments was with respect to farm-buildings. He admitted, that the extensive improvements contemplated by the Bill could not be completely carried into effect without a power being given for the erection of buildings; and he would beg to move, therefore, that the erection of such buildings be allowed in all cases where the Commissioners should think them necessary and essential.
§ LORD MONTEAGLEbegged to ask whether any provision was proposed to be adopted, in accordance with the suggestion of a noble Duke on a former evening, for requiring the insurance of buildings to be erected under the Act?
§ The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEsaid, 687 the next Amendment which he had to propose was, that all mills and farm-buildings erected under the Act should be required to be insured during the payment of the instalments under the Act. Another Amendment was to give the Commissioners power to extend the time for the completion of the works to a period not exceeding two years beyond the period first fixed, when they should think it was impracticable to complete them in the given time. He next came to the Amendment suggested by the noble Duke for the payment of labour in all cases in the current coin of the realm. He had communicated with a great many persons on the matter, and he was sorry to say that they agreed with him very generally in opinion, that it would be impossible in every instance to carry such an enactment into execution. At the same time, he was so desirous of seeing the principle carried out, that he should propose to introduce words in the Bill recognising that principle, by declaring that in all works undertaken under that Bill the labourers employed should receive payment in money to the full value of the stipulated wages. He could not, however, hold out any promise to the noble Duke that the clause would not in many instances be evaded. In fact, he could mention two or three instances, at the moment, in which it would be impossible to guard against such evasion.
§ The DUKE of WELLINGTONobserved, that his entire object would not be obtained by the enactment under this measure proposed by the noble Marquess. His object was to produce an alteration of the present system generally throughout the whole of Ireland, by means of an enactment. His opinion was, that the greater part of the evils of Ireland had been occasioned by the course followed there with respect to the labourers; and he was anxious so to change the system that those labourers should be paid wages in money, either by the day, half-day, or week, as might be arranged. The evil at present consisted in paying labour by means of land, out of which the poor labourer was forced to raise his subsistence, and the rent imposed upon the land. This evil was felt in Ireland more than in any country in the world. It was one fatal to its prosperity, and he wished to apply a remedy by substituting for such a practice the payment of money wages. The proposal now made by the noble Marquess, though it did not provide against the whole evil, yet would 688 do so to a certain extent; and he therefore thanked the noble Marquess for having brought it forward. He was firmly convinced, however, that till they came to a final arrangement as to this matter, and provided a full remedy, they would not attain the object they had in view with reference to the labourers of Ireland, or raise them to the same condition with the labourers of this and other countries; and he repeated, that this never could be done till the system of keeping them, as at present, on the land, there to raise the means of subsistence for themselves, was abandoned, and the mode adopted of paying their labour in wages.
The MARQUESS of WESTMEATHadmitted that the practice so strongly condemned by the noble Duke had tended, in a very great measure, to reduce Ireland to that condition in which she now suffered; but at the same time he doubted if any direct enactment like this would meet the evil. It was unquestionably the interest of all the proprietors of the soil to do away with the conacre system, for no one possessing his senses would let his land in conacre. Those only who wanted to get a turn out of the land had recourse to such a system, and the only remedy was to prevent the rent being recoverable by law.
§ Amendments agreed to. Report received.
§ House adjourned.