THE ADDRESS.

HL Deb 02 February 1843 vol 66 cc6-62

The Earl of Powis

said—My Lords, in rising to address your Lordships, to adoption an Address in answer to the gracious speech with which her Majesty has been pleased to direct the Lords Commissioners to open the present Parliament, I take the earliest opportunity of congratulating your Lordships upon the happy state in which the foreign relations of this country stand, and the prospect of peace, which is extending itself throughout all portions of the habitable globe connected with the British empire. My Lords, I have the satisfaction of doing this, not as a matter of form, but in sincerity and truth; and I am happy to say, that I believe it to be the intention of the Government of this country to carry out practically that principle of peace which is so essential to the benefit of the British empire. My Lords, I ought not to deal with this question generally. I ought to consider it particularly, and I think I cannot do better for this purpose than by adopting the course laid down in her Majesty's Speech. The importance of the first great question brought under the consideration of your Lordships in that Speech cannot be doubted, when we recollect that it has been the subject of discussion between the two countries of England and the United States for upwards of a quarter of a century, and when the result of those discussions has been more to disagree than to arrive at an amicable settlement. Under such circumstances it appeared to her Majesty's Government hope less to pursue the usual course of entering into a correspondence between the secretaries of state for the two countries. It was found that such a course could not bring the matter to a satisfactory result, and it was therefore determined by her Majesty's Government to send out a special mission to America, and for that purpose they selected a noble Lord, and I will venture to say there never occurred greater unanimity than on the appointment of that noble Lord. The result of that mission has perfectly justified the expectations formed by her Majesty's Government, and the noble Lord has the gratification of knowing that he has, on the most essential questions, been the means of giving that hope and expectation of permanent peace which ought to exist between two nations boasting a common origin, and possessing nobler institutions than any other nations on earth. It is important that this question should be set at rest, because it has mixed itself up with all communications between this country and the United States. It has been a sore continually festering, and whatever differences have occurred they have been continually aggravated on both sides of the Atlantic by the boundary dispute. This question is now fortunately set at rest; and I hope and trust the result will be not only to secure a more amicable settlement between the citizens of the two countries, but will be the means of renewing that commercial intercourse which is so important to two such extensive communities. The next question to which I shall take the liberty of directing your Lordships' attention is the conclusion of the war with China. A very few short months only have elapsed since last we met in this place, and I believe that, at that time, there was not one of your Lord ships who entertained any expectation that, with regard to that great question, there was any prospect that it would be so speedily or so satisfactorily settled. We are all aware that nothing can equal the gallantry, the zeal, the spirit, and the energy of British troops or British seamen—but we did not expect that this war would so soon have been brought to such a happy result. Our troops and seamen had to encounter many difficulties and dangers, and notwithstanding they had to penetrate into an unknown country, and had to encounter the dangers of the climate, from which our troops have suffered more than from the sword. All these difficulties and dangers, however, they have overcome. They have shown themselves worthy of their established reputation, and have taught the Chinese Emperor that peace with the British empire is better than a continuation of that state of things in which their own obstinacy had unfortunately involved them. It is with great satisfaction that I perceive the manner in which her Majesty has been pleased to characterise the exertions of the troops and seamen, both native and British, employed in this arduous service. The next subject to which I wish to direct your Lordships' attention is the conclusion of the war in Affghanistan. That war has also been brought to a happy result. It would be unmanly if I attempted to deny the sad reverses which we previously experienced in the country, it would be unmanly if I did not admit that the difficulties under which we laboured in that country, in consequence of those reverses, were very great. It must be admitted, indeed, that our reverses in that country had been disastrous in the extreme. Our duty in the first place was to redeem the honour of the British flag, which had been tarnished, and in the next to restore to liberty the portion of her Majesty's subjects, both male and female, who had had the misfortune to be detained in captivity in Affghanistan. I will not now stop to raise the question, whether those ladies were justified in placing themselves in such a situation as to subject them selves to the chance of being taken prisoners. It is sufficient for me to know that they were involved in such circumstances as to make it our duty, having, in the first place vindicated and redeemed the honour of the British flag, in the second place, to restore those captives to liberty. Happily both these results were accomplished. The first step towards the accomplishment of this great work was to be recognised in the noble and gallant defence of Jellalabad by Sir R. Sale. That was the first step in advance, and afforded a glorious example for future exertions. I need not more particularly allude to the noble and gallant conduct of the troops under the command of General Pollock and of General Nott in the various operations on which they had been engaged in Affghanistan; but I must be allowed to express the great satisfaction I feel at the handsome manner in which her Majesty has been pleased to speak of the exertions of the British troops employed in this arduous warfare. I am happy to say, that not only has the British forces merited those encomiums, but that the native force in the service of the hon. the East India Company have proved themselves equally worthy of praise. Both the British and the native troops deserved to be highly lauded for their gallant conduct during the campaign. I may, perhaps, be permitted to allude more particu- larly to this subject, because I entertain hereditary feelings with respect to India. With that country my family have been connected for many years. Greater devotion, I must say, could not have been shown by any troops than was exhibited by the native troops during the late hostilities in India; troops could not anywhere be found more worthy, in every respect, to serve in line with the British forces; and it is impossible to pay them a higher compliment. The same fidelity, the same devotion, the same gallantry, the same love of glory which, now near a century ago, was exhibited by the ancestors of these very troops has been again displayed. If your Lord ships look to the siege of Arcot, or, at a later period, to the taking of Seringapatam, the capture of Bhurtpore, or to those great actions in which the noble Duke bore a part, and mark the devotion displayed at those periods by the native troops, and then mark their conduct in the late war, you will find that the same ardent devotion, the same gallantry, the same fidelity continue to animate them. The descendants of the troops who fought the battle of Plessy as was exhibited by their gallant ancestors exhibited the same valour. What, then, are the consequences of those disasters, which, for a time, dimmed the glory of the British arms? They have merely afforded an opportunity of securing a complete triumph upon the fields where our reverses had been experienced. The native troops have gloriously assisted in restoring the splendour which had always accompanied and distinguished the British flag. The native army, combined with the British force, have been called on to avenge the disasters which our army had experienced. The result has justified the expectation which might reasonably have been formed from the known valour and discipline of her Majesty's forces. On that very spot, in that very country where those misfortunes had taken place, the British and native forces have marched on amidst the whitened bones of their countrymen to victory, and have restored the name of the British empire in India to that splendour which ought always to have accompanied it. Were this all, I might stop here, and allude with heightened satisfaction and in a cordial spirit of congratulation to these subjects, as presenting the country and their Lordships with more than ordinary grounds of satisfaction. But her Majesty has not been satisfied with merely exacting satisfaction for injuries and repairing those disasters which had befallen the British arms; I have the additional pleasure of calling the attention of your Lordships to a higher and more noble subject, which was involved in the good fortune of the Christian population in Syria. Her Majesty, in concert with her allies, has secured for that population a Government which must tend to advance the happiness and improve the welfare of that portion of Christendom, which must be a source of satisfaction to the nations of Europe, and which the good faith and honour of the Sultan entitle their Lordships to expect will be fully carried out. But her Majesty has not been content to limit the exertions of her beneficence even here; and has resolved to carry out that policy of universal peace which the blessing, and he might add the novelty of a strong Government enabled her to maintain. Her Majesty is engaged in communications with the emperor of Russia, by whose co-operation her Majesty entertained a confident hope of bringing to a happy termination the differences which subsisted between Turkey and Persia. But I do not limit the satisfaction which I feel, or the congratulations which I offer your Lordships and the country, to the assistance which her Majesty is graciously extending to facilitate the peaceful relations of foreign countries. Her Majesty has been enabled to conclude a treaty with Russia—a most important commercial treaty, by which her Majesty has happily laid the foundations of an increase of commerce with that great and extensive empire. The result of these treaties will be felt in the enjoyment of universal peace and tranquillity, and the improvement of commercial prosperity. The conclusion of hostilities with China, and the establishment of our commerce in the five principal ports of that populous empire, together with a treaty of commerce with Russia, form a series of advantages which Parliament can rarely expect to be informed of through the medium of a single Speech from the Throne. I wish it was also in my power to allude with equal satisfaction to the present state of the population at home. Though nothing has happened which should render your Lord ships otherwise than grateful for the dispensations of Providence, I cannot repress the intense anxiety which I feel from the conviction that our great population has not partaken last year of the same enjoyment of the comforts or even necessaries of life which your Lordships wish to see conferred upon them. I am afraid, however, that it is impossible that your Lordships can confer, or the great mass of the people derive, the benefit of any immediate and considerable improvement. For, although the alterations which were last year passed by the other House of Parliament, and which were sanctioned by your Lordships, may account materially and very largely for the diminution of the revenue, it cannot be concealed that those alterations will not explain so considerable and extensive a depreciation in the revenue. It is not my province to provoke a debate upon the causes which have produced this state of things. It is impossible, that justice can be done to a cause of such high and universal interest to your Lordships and to the country upon a day not appropriated to the discussion of topics of that description. One night is not sufficient for the consideration of interests which ought to be discussed at length, and should receive a full and complete hearing; whilst no other subject should be allowed to interfere with it. I therefore think that, in observing upon this part of her Majesty's most gracious Speech, I am justified in encouraging your Lordships to rely upon the words of the concluding paragraph in connexion with this subject, and trust that, although a material deficiency of the revenue exists, all the exigencies of the State will be fully met by the income which the Government may expect to derive from the future produce of the revenue. There is yet another subject which, notwithstanding the serious consequences which have fallen upon some of the parties concerned, may be regarded by their Lord ships with satisfaction, as proving the loyalty and the love of order which prevail among the vast majority of her Majesty's subjects. Her Majesty alludes to the outbreak by which the peace of certain parts of the manufacturing districts was seriously disturbed in the latter part of the last summer, or the beginning of the autumn; but it is surely a matter of congratulation to your Lordships, and of gratification to those engaged in administering the affairs of the nation, that the ordinary processes of the law had proved sufficient to check the evil tendency. To those, indeed, who were immediately concerned in such subjects, to those who were called upon to take part in quelling these disturbances, it afforded the greatest satisfaction to find that the good sense of the po- pulation had taught them that the result which they aimed at would be prejudiced by acts of tumult or of violence, and that it was their interest no less than their duty to depend upon the support and protection of the law. In regard to those measures which her Majesty s Ministers have intimated their intention of bringing before your Lordships, and which would have for their object the beneficial improvement of the law, I need do no more than remark that they will receive all that consideration and attention which they serve, and be speedily passed into laws. There remains only one other topic to which I deem it necessary to advert. I allude to her most gracious Majesty's recent visit to Scotland, a visit which has diffused a general joy and exultation throughout that country. In alluding to the royal visit to a sister country, your Lordships will, I trust, allow me to speak with pride and satisfaction of my own; for, although we have not that fine and cultivated country to show her Majesty, although we cannot boast that classic ground which appealed to the recollections of the Roman captain, and induced him to exclaim, Hic Tiber et Campus Martius, yet, whenever her gracious Majesty shall be pleased to honour their Principality with her presence, she may rely upon meeting, not merely a cold allegiance from its inhabitants, but hearts warm with an affectionate loyalty wherever she may direct her course. Whatever manifestations of attachment her Majesty may have received from the people of Scotland, the people of that principality would not fear the comparison. It is impossible that I can dismiss this subject without giving utterance to the sentiments I feel; but I shall not trespass upon your Lordships' time further than by moving the Address, in which I believe your Lordships will cordially concur, in reply to her Majesty's most gracious Speech. The noble Earl concluded by moving the following Address:

MOST GRACIOUS SOVEREIGN;

WE, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal Subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to approach Your Majesty, to return to Your Majesty our humble Thanks for the gracious Speech which your Majesty has commanded to be made to both Houses of Parliament.

We beg leave to express our Satisfaction in learning that Your Majesty receives from all Princes and States Assurances of a friendly Disposition towards this Country, and of an earnest Desire to co-operate with Your Majesty in the Maintenance of general Peace.

We participate in the Hope expressed by Your Majesty, that by the Treaty which Your Majesty has concluded with the United States of America, and by the Adjustment of those Differences which, from their long Continuance, have seriously endangered the Preservation of Peace, the amicable Relations of these Two Countries have been confirmed.

We desire to express our Satisfaction that the increased Exertions which, by the Liberality of Parliament, Your Majesty was enabled to make for the Termination of Hostilities with China, have been eminently successful.

We are deeply sensible of the Skill, Valour, and Discipline of the Naval and Military Forces employed on this Service, which have led to the Conclusion of Peace upon the Terms proposed by your Majesty.

We rejoice with Your Majesty in the Prospect that, by the free Access which will be opened to the principal Marts of that populous and extensive Empire, Encouragement will be given to the Commercial Enterprise of Your Majesty's People.

We humbly thank Your Majesty for informing us, that as soon as the Ratifications have been exchanged the Treaty will be laid before us.

We assure Your Majesty of the Gratification with which we have learnt, that, in concert with Your Majesty's Allies, Your Majesty has succeeded in obtaining for the Christian Population of Syria the Establishment of a System of Administration which they were entitled to expect from the Engagements of the Sultan, and from the good Faith of this Country.

We confidently hope, that, by the joint Mediation of Great Britain and Russia, those Differences between the Turkish and Persian Governments which had recently led to Acts of Hostility will be speedily and amicably adjusted.

We beg to thank your Majesty for informing us, that Your Majesty has concluded with the Emperor of Russia a Treaty of Commerce and Navigation, which Your Majesty regards with great Satisfaction, as the Foundation of increased intercourse between Your Majesty's Subjects and those of the Emperor, and for directing a Copy of this Treaty to be laid before us.

We thank Your Majesty for informing us, that complete Success has attended the recent Military Operations in Affghanistan, and for acquainting us, that Your Majesty entertains the highest Sense of the Ability with which these Operations have been directed, and of the Constancy and Valour that have been manifested by the European and Native Forces, by which the Superiority of Your Majesty's Arms has been established by decisive Victories on the Scenes of former Disaster, and the Liberation of Your Majesty's Subjects who were held in Captivity, and for whom Your Majesty has expressed the deepest Interest, has been effected.

We humbly thank Your Majesty for informing us, that it has not been deemed advisable to continue the Occupation by a Military Force of the Countries to the Westward of the Indus.

We share in Your Majesty's Regret at the diminished Receipt from some of the ordinary Sources of the Revenue.

In common with Your Majesty, we fear that it must be in part attributed to the reduced Consumption of many Articles caused by that Depression of the Manufacturing Industry of the Country which has so long prevailed, and which with Your Majesty we so deeply lament.

We assure Your Majesty, that in considering the present State of the Revenue we will bear in Mind that it has been materially affected by the extensive Reductions in the Import Duties which received our Sanction during the last Session of Parliament, and that little Progress has hitherto been made in the Collection of those Taxes which were imposed for the Purpose of supplying the Deficiency from that and other Causes.

We learn with Satisfaction that Your Majesty feels confident that the future Produce of the Revenue will be sufficient to meet every Exigency of the Public Service.

We tender our Acknowledgments to Your Majesty for Your Goodness in expressing the Gratification which Your Majesty derived from the Loyalty and affectionate Attachment manifested on the Occasion of Your Majesty's late Visit to Scotland.

We participate in the Concern expressed by Your Majesty, that in the course of the last Year the Public Peace in some of the Manufacturing Districts was seriously disturbed, and the Lives and Property of Your Majesty's Subjects were endangered by tumultuous Assemblages and Acts of Violence.

We rejoice to learn that the ordinary Law promptly enforced, was sufficient for the effectual Repression of those Disorders, and we confidently rely upon its Efficacy, and that, by the zealous Support of Your Majesty's loyal and peaceable Subjects, Tranquillity will be maintained.

We shall be prepared to take into consideration such Measures connected with the Improvement of the Law, and with various Questions of Domestic Policy, as may be submitted to us by Your Majesty's Direction.

Your Majesty may rest assured that our zealous Endeavours will be directed to the Promotion of the Public Welfare, and that we join in Your Majesty's Prayer, that the Favour of Divine Providence may direct and prosper our Counsels, and make them conducive to the Happiness and Contentment of Your Majesty's People.

The Earl of Eglinton

in rising to second the motion that a humble Address be presented in answer to her Majesty's most gracious Speech, claimed every indulgence from their Lordships, as that was the first time he had had the honour of addressing them; and he trusted that their Lord ships would pay more attention to the subjects on which he had to address them, than to the manner in which they should be brought before them. The difficulties of the duty imposed upon him were considerably lightened by the full and able manner in which the noble Earl, who had preceded him, had addressed himself to the subjects contained in her Majesty's Speech. Their Lordships, no doubt, had heard with the deepest attention the noble Earl address them upon the successes of their arms in India, having, as that noble Lord had justly remarked, an hereditary interest in that country. It must, he was sure, be most gratifying to their Lordships to know that the country was in a state of profound internal, as well as external, tranquillity; and that as those disturbances which had taken place in some of the manufacturing towns had given way before the ordinary authorities; and as agitation had in a great measure subsided, under the blessing, and he might even say, novelty, of a strong Government, so the clouds which for a while obscured our glory in the east, have cleared away into a more than usual brightness. Feeling deeply, as their Lordships must, the loss of life and the great loss of property occasioned by the disturbances, they had, however, the consolation of remembering that there was nothing in them bearing the appearance of political excitement, and that the excitement itself was confined to one portion of the country suffering distress; while it must be too well known to their Lordships, that other parts of the country that were suffering equal, if not greater privations, had yet borne them with a forbearance and a patience that must excite their Lordships' admiration. He trusted that the worst was over, and he also hoped that measures would be devised for the permanent relief of their overcrowded population. There was, however, one subject on which he could not congratulate their Lordships—that was the subject of the revenue; though he confessed he did not take the same gloomy view of it with the noble Earl who had preceded him. When their Lordships remembered the great changes which had received their sanction, they would also remember that sufficient time had not yet been given to judge of their effects. He trusted, however, they would be able to decide respecting them, when unanimity and tranquillity were established, and had spread their beneficial influence over them. He trusted that the next time that he came before their Lordships he would be able to notice these matters in a different spirit, and when he hoped to see them present a different aspect. Changes so important could not be made, and their effects determined, in a brief period. He most earnestly hoped, however, they would be allowed a full and impartial trial. This he said alike to those who, on the one hand, insisted that no change should have been made in the protection to the agricultural interest, as well as to those, on the other, who thought that no protection should be given to it. He called upon both to suspend their judgment until the experiment had been fairly tried. There was one subject alluded to in her Majesty's Speech which he could not pass over in silence, more particularly as it had been so especially committed to his charge by the noble Earl—he meant her Majesty's visit to Scotland. He trusted that their Lord ships would forgive him, when he gave expression to feelings that he knew animated all his countrymen—the deep gratitude, the enthusiastic loyalty which that visit had occasioned. Her Majesty had come amongst them without pomp; she had trusted to the fidelity and loyalty of her people; and he ventured to hope and trust that no means had been left unemployed by them to prove that her Majesty did not reign merely over the persons, but that she was throned in the hearts of her Scotch subjects. The gracious allusion of her Majesty in her Speech led him to hope, that at no distant period her Majesty would again be pleased to cheer them with her presence, and he would say, in the words of the Russian soldier to the Emperor, "If we have done well this time, we shall endeavour to do better the next." When they looked abroad, he felt that they could not but experience exultation in their successes, crowned as they were with the blessings of peace. They had purchased peace by no inglorious concession, but peace was obtained by the bayonets of their brave soldiers. They conceded peace on fair terms, when they might have extorted whatever terms they chose to dictate. In this England acted unlike other nations, for her conduct was that of moderation in the very moment of victory; they sought for no further conquest—they proved that their only desire was to preserve their honour, and to establish their commerce. He could not, too, but congratulate them on the brilliant successes of their arms in Affghanistan, where our armies marched to victory over the ground that had been whitened by the bones of their murdered countrymen. Their conduct there reflected immortal honour on the men who had achieved those victories, and upon those under whose directions they had accomplished them. The successes in China, and the satisfactory as well as the humane manner in which they had terminated the horrors of that war, formed another subject of his hearty congratulations to their Lordships. For them, though their victories were gained over a less warlike nation, yet their effects were likely to be of more permanent benefit to this country. It is not the least glorious event that has to be recorded in the history of our country that we have carried our victorious arms to the walls of Nankin, a forced and almost unconditional surrender from a nation occupying so large a portion of the earth, and who have been as yet ignorant of foreign dictation. He could not, too, but congratulate their Lord ships on what occurred in Syria, and which was, according to the pledge given by the Sultan, and by means of which this country could not but gain in character and in honour. It was, too, most satisfactory to know, that the differences between Turkey and Persia, had been referred to the joint consideration of this country and of Russia. It afforded not only the hope of a speedy termination of those differences, but it also showed the excellent understanding between England and that great empire. He had now to advert to another subject—it was one in which the most important success was gained—it was not achieved by the price of blood, but it was one for which they were indebted to the good sense and judgment of a noble Lord, a member of their Lordships' House—he referred to the adjustment of their differences with America. Sprung, as they were, from the same stock, speaking the same language, endowed with the same national characteristics of firmness and determination, it was most desirable, not only that no contentions should take place between them, but that they should be indissolubly united in the closest terms of amity and friendship. Looking, as he did, to the Americans as their natural allies, he could not but think that they gloried in the successes of England, as England did in their greatness; and, therefore, it must be a subject of congratulation to them, that their differences with such a country were not only at an end, but that they now began to be bound up with them in closer terms of alliance and friend ship than heretofore. He did not think that the occasion of presenting an address to her Majesty was the fitting moment for the discussion of party politics; and he had carefully abstained from touching upon any thing which might excite a political contention. He well knew that every one of their Lordships was equally desirous with himself of the good of his country—he well knew that every one of them, like himself, identified himself with his country's glory. He knew that there was not one amongst them who did not read with exultation the accounts of their triumphs in the east—he knew there was not one who must not rejoice to see peace established over the world—who did not desire to see trade revived, and national prosperity established. These were no party triumphs. These were the subjects contained in the Address, and to which he ventured to ask their Lordships' unanimous assent. He did not mean to detain their Lord ships further than by seconding the motion, that a humble Address be presented to her Majesty.

The Marquess of Lansdowne

"My Lords, though I am perfectly sure that the Speech which her Majesty has been advised to deliver from the Throne has been framed and calculated for the purpose of preventing the expression of any difference of opinion—and as the terms of the Address, which, as a matter of course, is to be proposed in return to that Speech, have also been so carefully framed—and though I am bound to admit that the speech of the noble Earl who moved the Address, and the speech of the noble Lord who seconded it, carefully followed the spirit in which her Majesty's Speech was couched—and though I concur in the propriety which induced them to abstain from delivering opinions upon anything that could give rise to controversy, or to introduce matters that could create a difference of opinion—yet there are, my Lords, topics un avoid ably introduced into the Queen's Speech of that magnitude and of that importance, that it is impossible, on an occasion like the present, on the opening of Parliament, and on the first day of the Session, that they should be allowed to pass without observation, and without remark. I feel I may naturally confine myself to a few observations, and but to a mere remark, because undoubtedly there is no expression in that Speech, subject to such explanation as I may give to it, in which I cannot cordially concur. In the first place, I am glad to perceive, because it has the effect of procuring that general concurrence which must be considered as so desirable, that no allusion has been made to the operation of the Corn-laws. I approve, my Lords, of the silence and the discretion which has been observed in that respect. If, indeed, we had been called upon to express anything like an opinion (that which we are not invited to do) as to the working of the measure pro posed last year—I say, my Lords, that if this had been done, then it would have been my painful duty, with what success it is not for me to say, but still to endeavour to persuade you that the operation of that law, as far as I am acquainted with the fact, has been such that it would be impossible for your Lordships to give it your approbation; because, testing that law by the only test by which you can ever consider such a law—(that is, if you are to have a Corn-law at all, the one by which you must try it—namely, of testing it by the fact whether it has interfered as little as possible in the movements of trade, and the operations of commerce), applying, my Lords, that test to the Corn-law of last year, I believe I cannot be contradicted, when I say that there never has been a period in which the convulsions of trade have been greater, as connected with that law. Never has there, my Lords, been a period when there was such a burst and flood of foreign corn pressing into the market by the sudden opening of the ports, at a period when it was least useful to the consumer, and most fatal to the interests of the parties engaged in that traffic. By the operation of this law, it was seen that, in the course of two or three weeks, not less than two millions of quarters of corn were thrown into the markets of this country, when, at other times, such was the course and operation of the law, that not half a million was admitted. I say, then, that the very statement of these facts is such, that it would be impossible, without any information very different from that of which we are in possession for Parliament to approve of that law. I applaud, my Lords, the discretion of her Majesty's advisers in omitting such a topic, and I applaud the discretion which has been evinced by the noble Earl who so ably moved the Address, in not calling upon your Lordships to pronounce any opinion upon that subject, nor in desiring that your Lordships should say anything in approval of it. The effect of the omission I feel to be this, that in assenting to that Address I retain my opinion as to the operation of a law, the discussion on which has been so carefully avoided. So much, then, my Lords, for what is not contained in the Speech, nor in the terms of the Address. I then come, my Lords, to those topics which have naturally and necessarily been introduced into the Speech." The noble Marquess proceeded to say that he looked upon one of these, not of the first importance, yet one of very great importance, the subject on which the noble Earl had dilated with such address—the conclusion of a treaty between this country and the United States of America, relating to the boundary question, and which had long been between this country and the United States a matter of dispute. He did so entirely agree in the sentiments ex pressed by the noble Earl, as to the satisfaction he felt in the good understanding which hitherto had prevailed between this country and the United States, and that might now be expected hereafter to prevail; he did so entirely agree in the importance of that good understanding between nations of one common origin, bound by common ties, and which their common commercial pursuits ought to make firm friends, and that he hoped ever to see united, joining with the noble Earl in the sentiments that he had expressed, and that he himself entertained strongly as a man could do, and having entertained and expressed those sentiments at a period when they did not find so much favour in that House as he was happy to think at the present moment—entertaining the sentiments which the noble Earl had expressed, and desirous as he was to promote a good understanding, entertaining no other sentiments than those of cordial and friendly feelings to words that country, and having, too, been long in habits of frequent inter course with his noble Friend who had negotiated and conducted the treaty with the United States, he was one of the last persons in the world disposed, and because the least disposed, the least qualified to become the accuser, or to pass a hostile criticism on the terms of a treaty which, on the whole, he was glad had been concluded. But with the feelings that he thus expressed and sincerely entertained, he could not go the length of saying, that he, as an individual, or the Parliament, were to be relieved from the necessary, fair, and just consideration of the terms of that treaty, and by which the object they desired had been obtained, and the negotiations with which it had been carried on. He was not disposed to go the length of asking of their Lordships to go into a consideration of the terms of the treaty. He did not quarrel with it be cause large concessions had been made. He did not cast any blame whatever on the treaty, because it had not strictly adhered to what was the right frontier, that which was the particular subject of the negotiation, for he thought it was not necessary, nor would it be becoming in this country to insist that that which he might term its strict rights should be literally carried into execution, when the danger of war might be avoided by a wise and just concession. He did not blame them for making large concessions to the United States—he did not blame them even for allowing the free navigation of the St. John's, a great boon to offer for equivalents, but he did lament that conceding it his noble Friend should have thought himself obliged also after being instructed to state, that to abandon the Madawaska settlement was hardship and cruelty to the colonists, he should have consented in a negotiation not carried on as a suppliant for accommodation, to abandon it, and that upon no other ground than the St. John's being a convenient boundary, when with some trouble that convenience as a boundary was sacrificed a little higher up, when it became convenient to America, to have part of the territory on the northern side. He did not say that it was not useful to have made those concessions—he did not say, that it was not right to have acquiesced in those great concessions; but he deplored that, when they had negotiated with that country, they were not able to include other matters, and have upon those a satisfactory settlement with the United States. It was to be deplored that much still remained unsettled—he did not say which might be the cause of war, for he trusted in God that nothing so insane as a war between this country and the United States should occur; but still he deplored that anything should have been left unsettled, which might be the cause of misunderstanding, or which might produce disagreeable feelings, that might grow out of these points not being determined. Undoubtedly, expressing as he did his individual satisfaction at the conclusion of the treaty, and that by his noble Friend one door to hostilities had been closed, and one source of irritation had been removed, yet it was painful to find that no sooner had one door been closed no sooner had one frontier question been settled, than another door was opened, and another frontier question had to be determined. Even before the wax bearing the impress of their seal to the treaty had become cold, before the breath, even of the negotiators had ceased its utterance, they had to turn from the frontier of New Brunswick to the Oregon—they had to pass from the banks of the St. John's River to the Columbia. They knew from the highest authority in the United States that that question was now open—that there was new matter for negotiation—that new claims were asserted, and had yet to be determined. He lamented, then, when such concessions had been made as the means of procuring peace, that the peace was so likely to be disturbed by new and dangerous discussions. He did lament, too, that advantage was not taken of the opportunity to settle permanently the difficulties connected with the right of search, and which was requisite for the suppression of that most odious, most unnatural traffic, most disgraceful to humanity, that had ever been carried on, and that never should have been sanctioned, much less tolerated, by any civilized country. It was impossible not to admit, her Majesty's Ministers must admit, because it was notorious to all the world, that the important principle of the right of search had greatly receded from that position which it had occupied at no more distant period than this time last year. It was in the month of January last year that M. St. Aulaire had signed a treaty sanctioning the right, and yet from what had since taken place, it was well known to their Lordships—it must be seen from the discussions that had taken place in other countries, that the reason, he did not say that it was justly assigned, but still the reason given in another country for seeking to depart from the treaty it had agreed to, was the failure on the part of this country to obtain even a modified recognition of it from the United States—that the negotiations of this country had led to nothing but the distinct declaration on the part of America that she never would admit the right of search. This it was that had furnished to other nations the appearance of an acquiescence in this, and this it was which was made the pretext with them for departing from a policy in which they had so honourably concurred. He therefore lamented, not only the absence of a clause on this subject in the treaty, but also that this country should have appeared to acquiesce in the distinct declaration of America that she never would coincide in a principle the maintenance of which was essential to the suppression of the Slave-trade. From the treaty with America, he came to those transactions to which the noble Lord had referred, and to which they were invited by the language in her Majesty's Speech. He had heard with the greatest satisfaction the terms in which the noble Earl and the noble Lord had expressed themselves with regard to the bravery and valour displayed by our troops in vindicating the dignity and honour of this country. He concurred, undoubtedly, in the panegyric which had been pronounced upon the exploits of our soldiers; because if the noble Lord spoke with the authority of her Majesty's Ministers, they said that which was in contradiction to what circumstances, at least for a time, gave the appearance of truth—to what, if it were not clearly to be known, at least might be surmised—that the noble Governor-General of India was in disposed to re-enter that country for the purpose either of establishing the authority of her Majesty or of vindicating the honour of the army. There were circum stances of delay in that undertaking [The Duke of Wellington: Take care, take care.] Those circumstances of delay in the undertaking gave the appearance to which he had alluded; but he hoped that that delay was not occasioned by any hesitation as to what was the right course to be pursued, or by any hesitation as to what was the right mode by which the honour of this country was to be vindicated; for, as to the means of attaining that object, they were abundantly supplied by his noble Friend, and through them that object was afterwards successfully accomplished. He hoped, then, whatever might be the appearances, that no such hesitation was really entertained, both as to the recovery of the prisoners and the recovery of their military honour—both objects most dear to them, and for which every means should have been employed, every nerve within their power should be strained. There were other matters connected with the subject of the retreat of a painful naturo to which he would not allude particularly until distinct information concerning them was laid before the House. There were also certain documents, purporting to be proclamations, issued in that country, but which certainly rather resembled the public announcements of its former rulers, the Sultans and Shahs, from whose passions and ambition India suffered in former times, than those of an English Government, and seemed rather to imitate the ostentation and the caprices of the former, than the temper, firmness, and sobriety which should characterise the latter, and upon which would be found to depend the confidence of the natives in their rulers, these documents were authentic, they were fully open to such observations; but at present he would advert to them no further, but pass from this subject, which was more or less of a mixed and painful character, though connected with the succeesful valour and brilliant achievements of her Majesty's officers and troops—let him add, not European troops only, but also the native soldiers of India, whose fidelity had been tested under the most adverse circumstances, and on whom our hold upon our Indian dominions so essentially depended. But he passed to another topic on which it was most satisfactory to think that, with regard to almost every step of the proceeding, there could be on the part of most, if not all men, but one feeling of sympathy and self-congratulation. With respect to the many circum stances which had led to the brilliant result of the war carried on on the coast of China, whether they looked at the instructions under which the expedition was originally undertaken, or the manner in which it was carried on, by the discretion and zeal of the persons selected to conduct it, he must say, that, with respect to every part of those transactions, there could be but one feeling of satisfaction, except among those, if any now remained, who doubted the justice of the expedition. If he had been one of those who thought the war essentially unjust—if he had been one of those who thought that they ought originally to have submitted to the insults, founded on the ignorance of the Chinese government, which had been offered to ours, and who thought that the English Government ought to have submitted to become the police of the Emperor of China for the purpose of carrying out his edicts, instead of maintaining the right to trade which England had so long enjoyed and which she had a right to proclaim that she would enjoy for the future, on the ground of positive agreement and stipulations—if he had entertained those opinions, he could not have joined in congratulation her Majesty on the success which had attended her Majesty's arms. But feeling, on the contrary, that the war was just and necessary, he rejoiced that in every step of those proceedings the most anxious desire had been shown by the Government of this country to come to terms with China at the least expense of Chinese life and property, and with the least pressure that could be applied for the purpose of effecting the object in view. However, in noticing this particular, he could not but allude to one sentence which had been, perhaps, inadvertently introduced into the Speech from the Throne, and which appeared to convey something that he thought could not be distinctly affirmed. It was stated in the Speech that The increased exertions which by the liberality of Parliament, her Majesty was enabled to make for the termination of hostilities with China have been eminently successful. He did not know what act of liberality on the part of Parliament was referred to, and which could be considered as the cause of the success of the war. There was no act of liberality on the part of Parliament but the financial measures of last year. Those were certainly extremely liberal. But was it the Income-tax that enabled her Majesty's Ministers to make increased exertions in China? There must have been an intense desire to say something in favour of the Income-tax without naming it, to have led to the introduction of such an observation. He was a little familiar with the concoction of Royal Speeches, and he could imagine that when all the paragraphs were made up, it occurred to some one that they ought to have a sentence in favour of the Income-tax, and then it was suggested that they might endeavour to connect it with the conquests in China. He had heard of odd clauses added to bills in the House of Commons, but never of so singular a tact as this connection of the conquests in China with the financial measures of last year. The fact was directly contrary. There was not one design entertained by her Majesty's Government, either the last or the pre sent—not one step taken—that might not have been, taken previously to those financial measures being introduced. He affirmed, without fear of contradiction, that the increased means which were employed in the Chinese war, were the means suggestion the government at home by his noble friend, the late Governor-general of India, immediately on hearing of the failure of the negotiations with Keshen. It was made a matter of reproach—but he thought it no matter of reproach—that they had so long hoped for accommodation with China through negotiation, and without the application of military force; but from the moment that the nego- tiations of the government of China, through the ignorance of the Chinese government, were of no avail, that particular description of force which was since employed in effecting the most extended operations, was pointed out by the late Governor-general of India, and was accepted and approved of by his successor. It consisted of some regiments of sepoys, which were in readiness, long before the Income-tax, for carrying on the war, with the addition of one European regiment. Those four regiments of sepoys were the identical description of force sent to China, and constituted the increased means of warfare, quite independently of the supposed liberality of Parliament. And not only the force but the scheme of operations in which it was employed, was pointed out, and, to a great extent, acted upon. While upon the subject, he wished to advert to a topic of infinitely greater consequence than the amount of force sent to China, or the time of sending it—a topic connected with the great object of opening China to the rest of the world, and to which the attention of Parliament and of her Majesty's Ministers should be especially directed, as having relation, not to the interests of the present moment, or the triumph and glory of this particular power, but to the future prospects of humanity, and affecting the interests of every country in Europe. The magnitude of this object, in reference to its ultimate possible results, could not probably be overrated. It was inferior in the magnitude of its bearings, on the interest of the world, only to that great revolution caused by the discovery of the transatlantic countries three centuries ago, the consequences of which those three centuries had but imperfectly developed; that great discovery which had induced one of the greatest writers of this country to apply to it the wordsߞ Time's noblest offspring is its last. The late event resembled the discovery of America, since it opened almost as great a portion of the globe, a country measuring twenty degrees of latitude by twenty degrees of longitude, to the vivifying influence of communication with us. It was not, however, like America, thinly peopled, but contained a population of hundreds of millions, who, it might be expected, were prepared for intercourse with this country, and ready to receive that communication, and that impulse which it was in the power of European countries, and, above all, of this country to supply. But it would require all the skill, attention, and assiduity of the Government and of individuals to lay a foundation for that intercourse which was of so much importance. The utmost care should be taken to prevent any kind of injustice, or any kind of violence, and not only the rights, but the prejudices of the Chinese people should be respected, so that they should regard us as entering that country not with the feelings of victors, but as friends wishing to place our communications with them on a footing of justice and equality. On their success in diffusing such feelings amongst the Chinese population, would depend the good, which, under Providence, they ought to be the means of accomplishing. He trusted, therefore, that her Majesty's Government would give attention to this subject, and that means would be devised for giving additional security to our commercial relations, by placing those engaged in commerce there under some local authority, and by a judicious selection of persons in whom such authority might be vested. He did not speak with distrust of her Majesty's Ministers, or of the noble Lord with whom the appointment of such functionaries, whether consuls or others, would rest; but he would say, that a heavier responsibility never rested on any one than the responsibility of such appointments. [The Duke of Wellington: Hear.] He did not mean to express any doubt of what the conduct of the Government would be, but he hoped they would not be backward in arming the parties so appointed with legal powers sufficient to ensure due control, and to give every security that could be given, for the due regulation of an intercourse so fraught with important consequences to the interests of the world—consequences which would continue to operate long after the present gene ration had ceased to exist. He ventured to throw out these considerations, because they presented themselves strongly to his mind. He would only add, that upon the successful result of the war he did most sincerely congratulate her Majesty's Government, and congratulate the country, for he believed there was hardly one man who had not reason to feel that his own individual interest, as well as the interest of the country at large, had been benefited. The next part of the Speech from the Throne to which he would refer was that in which her Majesty's advisers admitted the distressed state of the country. He was glad of that admission, and he hardly thought the existence of that distress could be stated in too strong terms. When it was stated that the power of the law had been found efficacious in putting down the disturbances created by that distress, he thought it presented another subject of congratulation, especially when it was recollected, that in the excitement caused by those disturbances, there had been less positive loss of property or life than in any similar case had ever been heard of. They had also to recollect that some of the districts in which suffering had been most deeply felt had exhibited a forbearance, an acquiescence in a state of things they deemed unjust, and a patient waiting for the relief which Parliament might administer, which reflected the highest honour on them, and which would hardly have been exhibited at any former period of our history. This should add, if anything could add, to the desire of her Majesty's Government and of Parliament, to make any sacrifice that they could make, and to administer any remedy in their power which might palliate distress endured with so much patience. The noble Marquess concluded with stating, that he had spoken at greater length than he intended on some points which seemed to call for remark, but he had no intention to oppose the Address.

The Duke of Wellington

said: I did hope that the tenor of the Speech delivered by her Majesty's commands from the Throne, and of the able speeches of my two noble friends near me, the noble mover and the noble seconder of the Address, would have induced the noble Marquess (if he thought proper to make any observation at all) to abstain from that description of observation upon which it would be necessary for me to enter into any explanation. However, the noble Marquess has thought proper to attack the Speech on the score of its veracity. We are told that her Majesty has been advised to advert to the liberality of Parliament as having enabled her Majesty's forces to bring the war in China to an early and successful termination, but that we have made no mention of the Income-tax as an instance of that liberality. My lords, I beg your lordships to recollect that the common course of parliamentary proceedings—I should say the ordinary course (for it was not the course during the administration of the noble Lord opposite) —is for her Majesty's Government, when engaged in war to come down with an estimate of the force necessary for carrying it on, the expense thereof, and the whole means for finding the money to pay that expense. It is perfectly true that that course was totally abandoned by the noble lords opposite when they were in office. They carried on war all over the world with a peace establishment, and they concluded that those who succeeded them would do the same. Now, my Lords, that is exactly what we do not. The noble Marquess stated that if he had been one of those who conceived that we ought to have submitted to the conduct of the officers of the Emperor of China, and to have turned ourselves into customhouse officers for that country, he not only would not recommend the Speech from the Throne, but could not join in approbation of the Address. My Lords, I beg the noble Marquess to recollect that I believe I was almost the only individual who stated that the real ground of complaint against the Chinese government was its conduct towards the person employed in the service of her Majesty, and representing her Majesty in China. When a motion was made by my noble Friend near me, I believe I was the only person who defended her Majesty's servants. I said that the war was a just and necessary war; I will go farther, and say if it had been otherwise—if it had been a war solely on the score of the robbery of the opium—if her Majesty's government were engaged in that war, and if their interests and honour were involved in it, I should have considered it my duty to make every effort for carrying it on with success, and have asked Parliament for the assistance which would have enabled her Majesty's servants to bring it to an early and successful termination. But I declared formerly, and have always declared, that I thought her Majesty's cause a just one, and I said so when I was the only man in the House, whether minister or otherwise, to support her Majesty's servants. I was a party to the war, and afterwards to advising her Majesty on the measures to be carried into execution, in order to bring the war to a conclusion. What did her Majesty's servants do? They recommended her Majesty to call on Parliament for a grant of additional forces and for a grant of a far larger sum of money than had been granted, in a former year, for carrying on that particular service. But more, my lords. Not a week after they came into office they sent orders to India to prepare to send reinforcements to China; and reinforcements were sent from England: first, of troops, and of ships as soon as they could be prepared. Those troops and ships arrived, and were engaged in the operations which brought the war to a close, immediately previous to the negotiation for peace. So much for the veracity of the Speech. But it appears that the same plan and the same operations were carried on by the former Government. I beg the noble Lord's pardon. He forgets altogether the operations at Chusan. He forgets the troops being withdrawn from the settlements at the northern part of the Chinese seas, and the going down to Canton. He forgets the many months lost at the commencement of the campaign. And he leaves out of mind the orders sent from India in September and October last, because it is desired to represent in the House that a statement in the Speech, delivered by her Majesty's command, wants veracity. Then, my Lords, the noble Marquess comes with recommendations very sensible and wise as to the manner in which we ought to proceed in order to carry on our commercial intercourse with China, and he tells us that all will depend on the measures which may be first adopted on the subject. That is very true, and I hope that if such measures are adopted they will be carried into execution. The execution was what was forgotten by the Government of the noble lords opposite. They had a very fine scheme—an admirable plan for establishing a jurisdiction over British subjects in China—and a variety of measures which, if adopted, would probably have prevented the recent squabbles, but not one of these was ever adopted. I happened to be in office for a short time, and I left a memorandum recommending measures to be adopted. But during the time noble lords opposite were in office, and up to the time of the war breaking out, not one measure did they carry into execution. Now, my Lords, if we adopt wise measures, I hope we shall carry them into execution. Having said so much of China, I will advert to a part of the subject which I certainly hoped the noble Marquess, taking example from the moderation of the Speech from the Throne, and of the speeches of my noble Friends near me, would have avoided—I did hope he would have avoided all topics of irritation, and have confined himself to the military topics in the Speech from the Throne, without adverting to persons not here present. If we are to have discussions on the important subject of India, it would be better to confine the discussion of this night to the questions placed before us by her Majesty's Government. I think no reference need be made to anterior transactions, or the disasters which have occurred. Those disasters must be admitted, as to the facts they cannot be denied. But the noble Marquess has referred to orders given for the movements of the troops. Now, I have seen something of Governors-general, and I know some little of military affairs and military difficulties; and I must say this—that I stand prepared, on any day, to justify every order for movement, whether one way or the other, that the Governor-general has given, from the moment in which he took on him to ad minister the Government of India to the present moment. I shall be ready, my Lords, whenever the noble Marquess or any other person shall make any charges, none of which are yet made, to reply to them, and to defend my noble Friend. I say, that the Governor-general, as soon as he accepted the Government, did as much as was in his power, considering the state of the preparations which he found on his arrival. It was not possible for any man to do more, and every order which he gave for the troops to halt or to march was necessary, considering the insufficiency of the troops. No blame can be thrown on his acts, which were the consequences of omissions before he arrived in India. I will say, that in the absence of any servant of the Crown I should be ready to defend him, but I firmly believe my noble Friend has done his duty. I am sorry to say one word on this subject. I was sorry to hear the noble Marquess refer to it; I warned him at the time that I did not wish to say anything in defence of my noble Friend, and I now only wish to show, that there was no want of attention on the part of my noble Friend the Governor-general, but of those who preceded him. I have no more observations to make, but I wish to say, in relation to the terms of the treaty concluded with the United States, that I think it is not fair to my noble Friend (Lord Ashburton) to enter into that subject till all the papers are before the House. Your Lordships will then have an opportunity of considering on what grounds the different points of the treaty rest, and what my noble Friend can state in justification of the treaty. I must likewise observe, that when the noble Marquess objects to the terms of the treaty adopted by my noble Friend, he forgets the adoption of the award of the arbitrator by the Government of which the noble Marquess was a Member, and which embraced all the points for which the noble Marquess blamed my noble Friend. Under these circumstances, I think my noble Friend has most satisfactorily concluded the treaty. The fact is, that the treaty of peace, called the treaty of Ghent, was never carried into execution, because the United States wished for one line, and we wished for another, and the line intended by the treaty was not defined. The question was referred to arbitration, and the arbitrator gave his award. England adopted that award; the United States did not. My noble Friend adopted a new line, and his proposal led to a new arrangement. I will not enter into the discussion before the papers are laid on the Table, and when they are they will throw no blame on my noble Friend. I believe that the arrangement he has made is most satisfactory to the country, particularly as it puts an end to the question in dispute, and puts an end to the heats and anger which existed between the two countries, and which embraced the leading interests of both.

Lord Brougham

. I have followed with the greatest interest the impressive and able speech of my noble friend opposite (the Duke of Wellington), who speaks on whatever subject comes before the House with the greatest weight of authority, and in a manner to command the greatest attention and excite the greatest interest; but who upon this particular occasion, when he was to deal with subjects of which he of all men may be said to know the most, and to be the highest living authority, upon them, must needs rivet, as in point of fact he has rivetted, the attention of your Lord ships. Nevertheless, my Lords, because my noble Friend has left out one or two material considerations that now force themselves on my mind, and because I think that those considerations involve interests of the very highest order for the prosperity and the peace of this country, I deem it to be my bounden duty to trespass for a little while upon your attention, while I entreat your attention to the subject. Now, first, with respect to the American treaty, I heartily concur with my noble Friend the noble Marquess behind me (the Marquess of Lansdowne) and with the noble Duke in expressing a sentiment, I believe common to all parties—to all men both in and out of Parliament—a sentiment of univer- sal exultation that the differences with America are at length settled. And as to the terms of that settlement—as to the territory which is affected by the line of boundary that we have heard so much talked of to-night, and so much more and so much less wisely talked of out of doors, I profess for myself to be of this opinion—(a heresy, I doubt not, as it will be regarded by some, perhaps by my noble Friends behind me)—I so infinitely overvalue, perhaps, the importance, the vital importance, to the interests of this country and of mankind at large, of a good understanding, of a cordial, friendly footing, being restored between this country and our kinsmen of America, that I care not how this line of boundary is drawn. I am utterly indifferent what direction that line takes, let it go a few miles or leagues to the right hand or to the left hand, even let it affect Cape Rous, even let it affect the navigation of St. John's river—welcome! take it all! Give it up! only give me peace between America and England. But, my Lords, lam not left to that in defending the treaty of my noble Friend opposite. This is a warfare, if it may be so called—for it is only a harmless warfare of political conflict, in which I and my noble Friend who has now happily terminated the American differences about which we have been negotiating, lam afraid we must both of us say, nearly a quarter of a century, have together been engaged, in deed both of us have been engaged in it ever since the year 1807. Since that period my noble Friend and I have been allies in these controversies, and, whether in or out of doors, very few persons have applied more attention to or have had more familiar acquaintance with the matters in dispute. I have thus a peculiar interest in the success of my noble Friend's negotiations, and I feel a little of the pride of an old ally with him in his present success, as I share with all my countrymen whose opinions are worth having in thanking, from the bottom of my heart, my noble Friend for the skill, the tempered firmness and conciliation, with which he—and I firmly believe, partly from his own intrinsic qualities and partly from accidental circum stances connecting him with the people of the United States, he alone, of all her Majesty's subjects (so happy was the choice of a negociator made in him), could have brought that negotiation to its present successful close, and by which not only he gave us peace, but he restored cordial good understanding, and brought back that feeling of mutual goodwill that unhappily had been so long disturbed. But now, my Lords, as to the defence of my noble Friend's negotiation. "The line of boundary," says the noble Marquess behind me, "was so driven as to imply—to involve, great concession on our part.' "Concession" is the word tried in the more temperate and judicious diction of my noble Friend. "Capitulation" is the word used by the less well-informed, and more ignorant, and more factious critics of the negotiation out of doors. But they are equally wrong,—whether the "concession-men," or the "capitulation-men," they are equally wrong or equally forgetful of the facts to their discredit on which my noble Friend's treaty turns. For, how stands the fact? Two charges only are brought to-night; when others are brought it will be time to meet them; these two charges are, the large concessions which the drawing of that line of boundary made, and in return for which we ought it is said to have obtained counter-concessions as a compensation. How many, and what kind of concessions did the award of his Majesty the King of the Netherlands give us when he drew, as my noble Friend the noble Duke opposite justly observed, the self same line of boundary which my noble Friend has conceded, with this one exception, that part of it came within our boundary and cut off a considerable portion of one of our provinces, but which my noble Friend, departing from the line of the King of the Netherlands, has obtained for us, and as a concession from the Americans? Now they who at this day choose to cavil at my noble Friend's boundary, were quite ready and willing to accept the self-same boundary under that king's award and quarrelled with America for refusing it. So much for their candour and fairness. But are these leagues, or a few square leagues, or 100 square leagues of the barren or forest territory of that country to stand in the way of an honest, and hearty, and entire approval of the great and inestimable good which has been obtained by restoring peace with America, and putting an end to squabblings with that country? The amount or the value of such leagues in the scale, I will not stoop to consider.—I will not condescend to weigh the one against the other—the feather against the pure gold. But then comes the navigation of the river St. John, and that I admit formed no part of the King of the Netherlands' award, he only awarding the boundary line; and my noble Friend is charged with making a large concession—"concession" here, "capitulation" elsewhere—of the navigation of the St. John's River. That river flows, as is well known, into the Bay of Fundy, through three descriptions of territory. One portion of the stream flows through American territory only, another portion through territory on one side American and on the other side English, and a third portion, and by far the most material portion, through English colonial territory on both sides of the stream. Now, to any person so well versed, I will not say in geography, but in questions of navigation and of trade, as my noble Friend (Lord Lansdowne)—even to a person who pro fesses ignorance, as I do on such questions, pretending only to have a general information on such subjects—even to one so little informed, it appears obvious on the slightest consideration that of the three descriptions, of course, by far the most important to have, and by far the most important not to have given up, is precisely the third, or that on which you have the territory on both sides; because, by having the territory on both sides, you command that navigation; you effectually keep in your hand all the trade on the upper and more inland part of the river. Now, again repeating that this whole question is, in my view of the subject, of infinitely small importance compared with the great object gained, even if the navigation were given up altogether, it does so happen that that part of the navigation which we retain the possession of, is the third and last that I have described; whereby the result is, and must of necessity be, that we command the trade of the upper part—or the more inland part—the American part—to the Bay of Fundy. My Lords, I here leave the question of the American treaty, once more expressing my hearty and entire satisfaction with it, and my gratitude to my noble Friend—my exultation as a British subject, and, I may add, as a citizen of the world—that these apparently endless disputes between the two countries are at length brought to an honourable and a happy termination. And now, my Lords, suffer me to carry your attention, for one moment, from the west to the east, as regards her Majesty's Speech, and to express, in common with my noble Friend behind me, and in common with the noble Duke, as well as with the noble mover and seconder of the Address, the exultation. we all must feel at the happy termination of the war—they cull it "the glorious termination of the war in Affghanistan;" I am disposed to call it the happy even I of our being delivered from that war. My Lords, no one can have listened to the justification pronounced of my noble Friend the Governor-general of India by the noble Duke without feeling the great importance of that opinion, its almost decisive weight in the scale (if the scale had hung doubtful), whether for attack or defence, for the acquittal or condemnation of the Governor-general's conduct. The pronouncing of that opinion by the highest living authority upon military subjects—whether in Asia or in Europe—the pronouncing of an acquittal so decisively and so heartily as my noble Friend has to-night pronounced it upon the Governor-general, cannot fail to have all over the world a most important influence in this discussion. But in the midst of all these triumphs—of all these happy events—of the great happiness of our escape from disaster—the result of great and glaring impolicy—in the midst of all this smiling scene, from the des patches to which my noble Friend behind me (the Marquess of Lansdowne) has directed your attention, there weighs some thing on my mind which, though ready to wait for explanation, and anxious that that explanation should result in acquittal, I confess gives me some pain,ߞ ߞMedio de fonte leporum Surgit amari aliquid, quod in ipsis floribus angat. My Lords, I have seen—it may be capable of explanation, it may be possible to extenuate it, it may even, for aught I know, be possible to justify and defend it—but I have seen, with anxious pain and grief, and let me add, as an Englishman viewing the conduct of my countrymen brought before the bar of public opinion all over Europe—I have seen, with a pang of shame, certain passages that have accompanied the termination, otherwise felicitous and glorious, of these unhappy and inglorious hostilities. Prodigious works of human industry, mighty remains of the skill, as well as the wealth of past ages,—vast monuments of ancient industry and taste—great bazaars, the resort of trade, and the sources of peaceful commercial prosperity, levelled with the ground and their fragments scattered in the dust—great cities set fire to by the avowal of the incendiary general himself in four several places in one night—troops let loose upon the un offending people by the avowal, not of the captain, but at least of a military eyewitness who participated in the slaughter—people hunted down—"thousands of individuals hunted down" is the phrase, "like vermin, for two days and two nights." These, my Lords, are sad, they are terrific passages in our recent Indian story. All this, for aught I know, may be explained and palliated—all this for aught I can tell (and God grant it be so), may receive its full justification; but as at present advised I confess I heard with pain, with horror, and with shame, these passages which accompanied the end of the Affghan war. My Lords, I am bid to look, as the justification for such excesses, to the excesses previously committed against our own troops; and I well know, that when once you go to war—and it is exactly upon this account more than any other that I abhor war as the greatest of human crimes—I know, as who does not? that the skilful mind, the humane temper, the steady hand which had held up the dogs of war when they are once unslipped, is utterly impotent to chain them up again, and must lay its account with standing by the helpless witness of the horrors those furies commit. This I am aware of, and to all the benefit that will accrue in defence or palliation which may result from these considerations, they who were so lately concerned in these transactions are welcome at my hands. But this I further do know, that if exasperation—if exasperation of our soldiers is to be the defence of these transactions—if it be said that our regiments could not bear to see the ground over which they passed bleached with the bones of their countrymen who had perished on the same spot last year by the hands of those they were sent to at tack—if this is to be the defence, then I naturally ask, whose fault was it that they were there? How came they to be in that country to be massacred? Whence arose these horrors? What gave rise to these scenes of slaughter? By whom, in consequence of what, through whose plans or whose policy did it occur that these visions of blood were presented to the sight? I say, those who went there—those who made the aggression on the Affghan territory they have themselves to thank and those that sent them, for these cruelties. When men invade a country they must not expect the invaded to be very nice as to the means they employ in their self-defence or in their vengeance There is a great differ- ence with respect to cruelties committed in repelling aggression and those perpetrated in making it. Let us suppose a case—let us even take an example from what has passed within the recollection of most of us—let us suppose the case of a French army passing through Prussia, on their way to Moscow, being defeated and being exposed in their retreat to the vengeance of the very Prussian peasantry whom they had aggrieved on their passage. I never yet heard, hardly even a French man, certainly never an Englishman, make use of any very harsh expressions of blame towards the Prussians for their conduct towards the French army, for it was naturally felt that they made the attack, and must expect to be roughly treated in return. But I will put the case in another way. The Affghans are not Christians: we are. Let us apply the fundamental rule of Christianity; and make the case our own. Suppose we were invaded—I will not say by an Affghan, but by a civilised force—suppose they should get pos session of a part of the country, and great resistance should be made, lest they should go further. Would any man living be so scrupulous, so nice as greatly to blame the peasantry of the country for cutting off every man living of that force, whether general or captain, or subaltern or private, aye, or even merely camp follower, who fell into the hands of those aggrieved by the violence of the invasion? And yet what are the Affghans charged with—what do you lay to their blame—except that they, not being Christians, not being civilised, exercised some degree of cruelty towards a Christian and a civilised soldiery sent into their territory for political purposes, founded on views, very profound and wise, no doubt, but of which they, having no earthly concern with them, took no earthly heed, only caring for the safety of themselves, of their wives, and of their cottages, which in your profound policy you thought fit to invade? This course they took, and because they took it a devastation is committed—ruthless—but as needless as it was ruthless—a superfluous devastation, having no purpose, no object; because the object—the purpose of the movement—was answered in the occupation of their country, and release of their captives; a devastation only committed, as it would seem, to gratify a fierce, a brutal, an unchristian spirit of vengeance, or to work out a policy to which I will give no harsh or vituperative name, but of which I will say that it is a weak, an empty, a self-repugnant, aye, and a self-destructive policy—that policy being to impress a notion, to leave a recollection of your power upon the nations of the East, forgetting that at the same time you are impressing it you are also leaving on their minds an unquenchable abhorrence of the European name and character; or, at least, of the name and character of the British Europeans. My Lords, I did not think it inconsistent with my duty to take advantage of this occasion to enter my protest against these cruel barbarities—a protest, I beg leave to say, entirely without factious, or personal, or invidious objects, but, as I believe, in accordance with views which are shared by others at home and abroad, nay I am confident shared by my noble friends opposite themselves. My Lords, I cannot close these observations without adverting to another part of the Speech, from which I have also derived unmingled satisfaction,—I refer to her Majesty's assurance of the earnest de sire of foreign powers to co-operate with her Majesty in the maintenance of general peace. My Lords, I here particularly refer to that foreign power, peace with which implies peace with all Europe—I might almost say with all the world—I mean the great kingdom of France. Nothing could be more unfortunate than that spirit which lately prevailed in France, but which is now, I am glad to believe, on the de cline,—I mean that contentious spirit of finding fault with the conduct of Great Britain on every question she takes in hand, blaming all she does, regards her successes with grudging envy, her disasters with exultation, and especially of condemning her with regard to the course she desires to pursue respecting the important question of the slave trade, and the right of search. With respect to this subject I am more especially anxious to offer a few observations, believing, without vanity, that my entering into the question may have a salutary effect else where in leading towards its settlement. My Lords, there exists in France an extraordinary degree of ignorance on this subject,—not among the lower orders, but among men of some mark—an ignorance which I own fairly I could not have believed possible if I had not had evidence of it very lately, even within the last fortnight, the evidence of my own eyes and ears. This ignorance too, let it be understood, is not confined to interested persons —to the West-Indian party and their hired agents in the chambers or in the press, for they notoriously have hired agents in both—but it exists among men far better in formed, and most unlikely to be made the tools of any sect or faction. I have with my own ears heard some of them declare, what but that I had so heard I could not have believed any man capable of saying, Oh, England cares nothing for the right of search as regards the abolition of the slave-trade; she only wants to get her foot on the principle by which she shall establish an absolute claim to a maritime superiority—to what she calls the sovereignty of the seas. These arguments, and such as these, are at the bottom of the objections which prevented the treaty of 1841 from being executed, and at the bottom of the desire to break the treaties of 1831 and 1833, and no one better knows how the whole question bears, how this national jealousy obtains, than the noble Lord opposite (Lord Ashburton), who was lately of necessity so much engaged in the consideration of this subject. He and I know also how fallacious is the whole argument, for upon this question we two have likewise been associated for much more than a quarter of a century. Its discussion began in 1807, and it continued afterwards to be made a party question for eight whole years. We were leaders on the question; I believe I entered Parliament as Counsel, afterwards as a Member. He and I conducted that great controversy, and brought it, in 1812, to a successful close, by repealing the Orders in Council—the favourite measures of those who maintained the maritime supremacy of England. We, both of us, all along took what was called the low view of maritime rights, and it was the very party to which we belonged, and which is now pressing the right of search, which was then always opposed to the claims of belligerents as against the rights of neutrals. We were attacked as un-English, as anti-national, as allies of America and of the neutrals, as hostile to the maritime claims of our own country. Now so far from these claims having any, the least connexion with the right of search, I assert, without fear of contradiction, indeed all your Lordships are fully aware of it, that the party which maintains the right of search is the very party always strenuously opposed to those claims of maritime supremacy, and that the party who pressed the claims of maritime supremacy, are the party, with one or two exceptions, who care not a straw for the right of search, because indifferent about the slave-trade. The ignorance in France is exactly like what would be in this country the ignorance of a man who should say, that my noble Friend M. de Chateaubriant disliked M. des Dreux, Bresé, and M. de Noailles, on account of the hatred both these persons bear to the Due de Bordeaux and of their vehement predilection for the Government of King Louis Phillippe. Such would not be at all a grosser blunder as to French party, than the blunder into which these fall, as to the English party, who say that the advocates of right of search are the champions of English naval supremacy and English maritime rights. But with respect to what has fallen from the noble Marquess behind me, who regretted that nothing had been done in America upon this question, I have also, with permission of the House, to say one word. It is quite true that the French have argued this question on the ground of the conduct of the Americans. It is quite true that they have said, "Why should we concede the right when America refuses? America shows spirit. America evinces national character. America is jealous of the honour of her flag. Concession is as un-French, as anti-Gallican, as it is un-American—anti American. If they won't bear it, why should we—if they won't concede, why should we surrender?" It is quite true that such have been the arguments of the French, and a very gifted gentleman, a worthy friend of mine, M. de Tocqueville, made a speech a short time back, in which he said the right of search was a thing never heard of before,—that it was a horrible novelty, a strange and frightful innovation, and the more frightful because it was to be exercised in what he called the "solitude of the ocean, far from mortal eye, and where mortal hand could not interpose to stay its abuses." I think was his term, and further, he said that it was more intolerable because it left one foreign country to decide on the conduct of another foreign country. Marvellous ignorance! Marvellous ignorance of the whole question! Why it is one of the first points in the treaty that no ship taken by an English cruiser is to be carried into any English port, but is to be taken into the foreign port, where her case is to be tried. Yes, and what is the consequence of this provision? The other day the Marabout, a slave ship, on her way to the coast of Africa, having numberless unexplained water casks on board, was taken by an English cruiser, and the court in the port of Cayenne acquitted her, because she was found to have no other cargo than her water casks, her irons, and her chains, and having no negroes, though manifestly fitted out for slave-trading, the slave-trading tribunal in a slave colony released her in the face of the demonstration afforded by her whole cargo. But this shows that M. de Tocqueville should be more accurate as to facts; that he ought to know, if not the X.Y.Z.—the unknown quantities we can hardly expect him to determine—but if not the X.Y.Z., at least the A.B.C. of his subject, before he undertakes to discuss the merits of a question of which his ignorance is at pre sent so incredibly profound. But this is not all. M. de Tocqueville, who wrote a book on America, which had many admirers both here and in France, beside the author himself, he says, he never heard of the right of search before—that no such idea was ever before broached—that it is quite new and altogether! previously unheard of. But what if we heard of it twenty years ago—what if we have heard of it within twenty years—what if an end could be put for ever to American references upon the inviolability of flags, to all their very spirited declarations about the sacred nature of their flag—what if they themselves made a proposition for a treaty on this subject—what if, in 1823, America pro pounded the very doctrine of a right of search, and called on England to record and consolidate that mutual right in a treaty signed and sealed—what too, if that very treaty was propounded not by the government of the United States, but by an all but unanimous vote of its senate, and what if the right of search propounded by that vote can be shown to be a great deal more stringent than the proposition of right of search now in dispute? The right of search then desired by the whole American congress, and by them pressed upon us, was, that the ships of each nation should be searched, not by men authorised both by the instructions of their own government and by the permissive consent of the commanders of the searched vessels, but by cruisers only provided with the instructions of their own government, and without any warrant from the commander of the vessels to be searched. Your Lord ships see at once that this was a right of search incomparably more stringent and more disgraceful (if there is any disgrace in the matter, if it can be deemed any disgrace to withdraw the shelter of your flag from robbers, murderers, pirates—if a flag can be supposed to be stained by washing out from its face the foul stain of skreening piracy) more disgraceful than any right of search now desired. And yet this very right of search was, as long ago as 1823, propounded by America herself, and was, as I have shown, a much more effectual right of search than ever was propounded to the French government. What happened? Mr. Canning, being then at the Foreign Office, objected to this treaty, that it went too far. He always took high ground with reference to any matter affecting our maritime rights, and he felt that this was scarcely to be called a mutual right of search, inasmuch as for every vessel liable to be searched by the Americans, we had twenty open to the same examination. He accordingly modified the original proposition, and, after much negotiation, on the 7th of March, 1824, the treaty was signed by Mr. Huskisson and Sir Stratford Canning on the part of Great Britain, and by Mr. Rush on the part of the United States; and by that treaty a right of search was established more effectual than we have ever since advised. The treaty, however, after being ratified here, went back to America, a slight alteration was suggested, we refused, as I think erroneously, to adopt it, and it is for that reason, that reason alone, that no treaty of this kind now exists between this country and America. But for that alteration, America would have ratified as she had signed: she sent our unaltered treaty, containing the fullest right of search, and ratified by the President and the senate; and had we ratified the altered treaty, altered only as to boundary, mutual search would have been established between us and America for the last nineteen years. I hope, after this, we shall hear no more said of France being justified in refusing the right of search to abolish the slave-trade on account of the conduct of America and the impossibility of America allowing her flag so to be insulted. Does any man suppose that the people of France care for the slave-trade? Does any man imagine that the French nation, or any portion of the French nation, are so ignorant of their duty, so callous to every feeling of humanity, so utterly devoid of every sentiment of justice, so utterly irrational and divested even of common sense, as at this time of day, toward the middle of the nineteenth century, to hold up their heads and defend the African slave-trade? No such thing. There is no such feeling in France; there is not even neutrality towards the slave-trade in France. If you poll the whole of that great, enlightened, and generous people, I will venture to say, not one in a mil lion will he found, save, perhaps, a few skulking West-Indian speculators, slave-traders in disguise, who haunt the purlieus of Bourdeaux or Nantes—with that single hateful disgusting exception, not one in a million will be found in France who does not feel towards the infernal traffic the same hatred and the same abhorrence expressed by your Lordships as often as its most hateful name is pronounced. But, my Lords, it is in vain to disguise from yourselves the truth that things often times pass by different names; and many words are used as rallying cries of party when the things signified are never thought of, and the names only serve to blind. The right of search, the conduct of the people at Barcelona, Portendic claims, Marques as islands, fishermen's conduct on the coast, terms of commercial treaty—all these, believe me, and I know the French well, I know the present state of French feeling and opinion well—all these are but variegated expressions, different forms, more or less circumlocutory, of speech for one short thing, which is a reality and not a name, and which lurks at the bottom of it all, and that, in plain English, and neither more nor less than that, is the real meaning of all these six or seven different phrases which are now agitating France—the 15th of July, 1840—Lord Palmerston's negotiation. I have put it to them all, I have canvassed it with every one of them severally, I have put it to them together, why they suddenly have discovered all this opposition to things which, in 1831 and 1833, no one dreamed of opposing. Never did they dream of it before July, 1840; and but for that ill-omened negotiation, but for the other acts in consistency with it, whereby it has been followed up, the right of search never would have been objected to, the commercial treaty would not now have been in abeyance, all the other points would have been given up, sacrificing little for great things, and every minor thing, for the great object of peace; but the feeling rankles in their bosom, and till, by the better conduct of those now at the helm of the state, by wise and prudent conciliation; by firm, but at the same time temperate, policy; by all that can conciliate the respect and win back the affection of that great nation; till that feeling be eradicated, it will break out, now upon one occasion or one pretext, now upon another, and prove the bane of the two Governments, because of the rankling sore between the two nations. But I rejoice to see that such feelings are upon the decline. It is manfully resisted by all the first statesmen of the country; even those who some years ago took an unfortunate part are now recovering their tone, and are more amicably disposed to us, and more wisely and prudently towards themselves. And if there be ignorance so profound as I have endeavoured to portray on one side, believe me ignorance I will not say so great, but very nearly as great, prevails also on the other, in this country, with respect to some things connected with the French authorities, and particularly as to the views, the patriotic and pacific views of that great Sovereign, the great friend of peace and of alliance with this country, as he is the pledge and the safeguard of his own country's tranquillity. I see daily instances of this ignorance of a parallel description to what I have adduced on the other side, and leading to the same misconstruction. I will only refer, as an example, to what happened at Barcelona. I do not believe there ever prevailed a greater delusion than upon this subject—the facts few, lying on the surface, in a narrow compass, perfectly simple, entangled with no complication. The French encourage a Christino rebel lion at Barcelona? Why, it was the Re publicans of Barcelona that raised it; greater enemies of the ex-queen than of the regent; and the particular cause of their rising was a very unpopular law with respect to recruitment and enlisting. But then it was said, that M. Lesseps, the French Consul at Barcelona, took an open part with the revolters. Did he? How did he show his partisanship? By refusing them the least countenance three times over when applied to. But he gave the countenance, and the protection of a French vessel to the fugitives! What fugitives? True, there came three several bodies of men, who took refuge on board of that vessel, and were protected by the French flag. Who was the first? The revolters?—the rebels? No such thing. The family of Van Halen, the Regent Espartero's Captain-general, M. Lesseps having gone through a fire of grape-shot in order to rescue them from danger, and carry them in safety to the ship. Then there came on board forty-three officers, of whom two were general officers, and three Colonels. Were they rebels? No such thing. They were regent's troops, who had surrendered, having been defeated by the rebels, from whom they refused a capitulation, and all of whom took shelter under the French flag. Who were the third party? Some of them were rebels, but not the first part of them; the first part of them were leaders of the regent's party, and last of all 500 came and wished to be allowed to take shelter on board—rebels no doubt; but what answer did M. Lesseps make? He ordered them to keep back; he refused all communication with them; he opened the broadside upon them, and compelled them to retreat by threat of instant destruction. So that if ever any man's conduct stood free from all possibility of accusation as that of an accomplice in rebellion, it was the conduct of the French Consul, whom the Government most wisely and justly have defended as the noble Duke to-night had done an absent Governor-general because they knew him to be in the right, and covered him with honours for his noble, loyal, and humane conduct. Having, my Lords, spoken of the ignorance of the French, I have thought it but just to instance a parallel case of ignorance among the English, by which the good understanding between the two countries has been put in jeopardy to the injury of the highest interests of both. I can have no hesitation in saying that I regard the interests of this country—so far I will admit it to the French partisans—I regard her most important interests and her dearest feelings and sympathies as inseparably bound to peace and alliance with France. I regard the peace of Europe as summed up in one word—peace of England with France. I regard universal war and devastation in Europe as the immediate consequence of a rupture between these two great powers. But it is not from undervaluing France any more than from undervaluing the resources and gallantry of my own countrymen—it is not from endeavouring to obtain an advantage at the expense of France—it is from my intimate and heartfelt conviction that what is good for France is good for England, and that the prosperity of the one country never can be promoted without a proportional improvement in the prosperity of the other, that I wish her well for the sake of this country as for her own sake; and while I admire the gallantry of our own troops, while I give every credit possible to the wisdom of our councils, and the success with which our military as well as our civil affairs have been administered, I regard that famous nation on the other side of the Channel with an equal admiration, and I join with my countrymen in holding it to be as much as England herself the land of gallant soldiers, of great captains, of profound statesmen, and of illustrious philosophers, whose history, military as well as civil, in all times, and in modern times as well as of old, is written in characters of brilliant lustre; but whose glory is now, I fervently hope, about to be consummated by the far more enduring and the far more sacred triumphs of a rivalry with the rest of mankind in the blessed arts of peace. I hold the olive-branch in my hand between these two countries, admiring, loving both, almost equally, and I will not allow that branch of hope and comfort to be torn from my grasp while there remains a leaf, a tendril, or a fibre of its frame to hold by. My belief, my entire and absolute conviction is, that only a little temperate conciliation, fair dealing, open manly conduct, is required on the part of the Ministers of the two nations to reclaim the people from the unhappy bias which late events have unfortunately given to their minds, from which I believe they are every day returning, and from which that they may fully and entirely be restored, I have not the least doubt that a very short period of the continuance of peace will amply suffice for this happy consummation. My Lords, I felt anxious upon the present occasion to stale thus freely my sentiments upon this question; and I rejoice to think that in the opinions I have expressed, in the feelings to which I have given vent, with respect to the alliance between England and France, I speak the sense of Parliament and of the country; I also have the satisfaction, the heart-felt satisfaction of knowing that the words I have spoken may not be without their use.

The Earl of Auckland

said, that he rose to address their Lordships with a feeling of very great diffidence. He felt, with the noble Lords who had already spoken, that this was not a fitting moment for entering into questions so complicated as those of recent eastern affairs, and he should in every point of view prefer a separate and fixed day for the discussion respecting those affairs. What he had to say now he would endeavour to comprise in as few sentences as possible; but he certainly did not wish, by remaining silent altogether, to appear as though he confessed the justice of some of the observations which had been made. He more peculiarly felt the disadvantage he laboured under of addressing their Lordships, after such speakers as the noble and learned Lord who had just sat down, and the noble Duke opposite, more particularly in reference to the noble Duke, as it was on military questions that he should have to make some remarks, arising out of what had fallen from the noble Duke. He entirely shared with his noble and learned Friend in the sentiments he had expressed as to the horrors of war. As to the causes of the Affghan war, this was not the fitting time to enter at length upon that subject; he would only say, that he undertook that war because he considered it essential to the safety of our empire in India; because he saw a danger approaching the Indian territory, which, if it had been once allowed to fix itself on our frontiers, would have left us without power, without stability, without safety. The alternative was before him—to await the approach of that danger, or to meet it in advance. He could well understand that there should be hesitation and difference of opinion as to which of these was the proper course, and, for himself, he could say that he had hesitated, hesitated most painfully; but, in the result, upon his own conviction, on the authority of nearly all those by whom he was surrounded, and who knew best how to advise him, in just anticipation of what would be the wishes, the views, and opinions of those in England, whether in the Government or at the East India House, to whom he was bound to show deference, he determined on the course which had been adopted, he resolved at once to dispel the danger which was most imminent, and which danger, he firmly believed, could now be represented as no longer formidable, solely because that decisive step had been taken. He entirely shared in the sentiments so well expressed by the noble and learned Lord as to the excesses which had been committed by the retiring army; he did not altogether share with him in the mitigated view which he had taken of the treachery, the murders, the massacres which had been committed by the Affghans; but during the latter part of his stay in India, he, for one, deprecated what was then called the war of retributive justice, seeing in it only the danger of returning excess for excess, of violence for violence, and fearing that we should lose more in character as a civilized people, than we should gain in military honour. He regarded the advance on Cabul as a great and glorious achievement, and he more particularly rejoiced at it as being crowned by the release of our coutrymen, but he lamented much that had followed. He wished to indulge the hope that there had been some exaggeration in the statements on the subject; but certainly, as regarding what he had heard, he only wished he had the eloquence and power of the noble and learned Lord to express the strong feelings which those proceedings had excited in his mind. With respect to what had fallen from the noble Duke, he could only say he should be glad should the orders issued by the present Governor-general be found to deserve the high character which the noble Duke had given them. He had no wish to attack the noble Governor-general; he had no wish to detract from his merits; he could conceive no more unbecoming spectacle than that of one Governor-general, lately retired from office, and another Governor-general lately come into office, bandying against each other terms of depreciation and disparagement. He would not follow the example which had been set him in this respect. The noble Duke seemed to charge him with omissions; he was not aware of any omissions. If ever there had been one thing more than another on his mind—if ever in his life he had laboured earnestly, and with singleness of purpose upon any object, it was during the last and most embarrassing part of his administration in India, that he might place at the disposal of his successor all the means he could collect, to place in the most forward position which could be occupied with security every man who could be spared from the cantonments in India, leaving it to that successor to adopt what line of policy should to him seem best. As to the difficulties which it had been alleged arose from the non-provision of carriage cattle, the fact was, that the divisions which marched from India in January and February, were provided with cattle for a march of 400 miles; the difficulties arose not in our own provinces, but in Peshawur, at the mouth of the passes, in consequence of the desertion of the drivers, who shrunk from the danger before them; and it was only when general Pollock, with that bravery and ability which distinguished his command, had restored the spirit of the army, conciliated his allies, forced the passes, and secured safety, that the drivers resumed their duties. The omission, here, then, if such it could be called, was not his, but owing entirely to the force of circumstances. He would say no more at present respecting the Affghan war. In reference to affairs in China, the noble Duke seemed disposed to take all the credit for the results there to the present Government, assigning none whatever to the Government which preceded it. This was not the time to go through the details of the several reinforcements which had been sent to China; but, with reference to the last operations, he would give a statement of what had occurred in 1841. In January of that year, he was informed by the royal commissioner in China, that he was about to dispense with, and to send either to England or India, the greater portion of the force on that coast, in consequence of the negotiations going on, and which then appeared likely to be brought to a successful termination. He strongly objected to this, and desired that not a single ship or man should be sent away from that country. Shortly after this, the treaty was broken off, and he then gave immediate orders for reinforcing the army in that quarter. Previous to the arrival of the reinforcements, the forces on the coast had made a successful attack on Canton. After this, the navy and army proceeded to the islands of Amoy, Chusan, Ching-hae, and the city of Ningpo, each of which places they successfully attacked. More would have been done, but the expedition which was prepared at Calcutta had been unavoidably detained by foul weather at Canton, and was prevented reaching its destination as soon as was expected. It was projected with this force to intercept the navigation of the Great Canal, by sailing up the great river Yang-tsze-keang. He had expressed his opinions On the subject of the expedition to her Majesty's Government, in August, 1841, a period when his own friends had not left office. In that communication he stated his doubts whether the Emperor of China could, with the amount of force then employed, be brought to terms; and his opinion that, in addition to ships from England, reinforcements should be sent from India to the amount of 5,000 native troops, and one European regiment. In answer to this application, he found that the present Government had very nearly, though not exactly, adopted his recommendation, for they directed that four additional regiments of native troops, together with artillery, should be sent from India, and that instead of an European regiment being sent, when it certainly could be ill spared, one was sent from another quarter. He had now stated what he had recommended in 1841, and noble Lords would see that, although in all its detail his suggestion had not been carried out, yet it had been adhered to in its main features. This was all that he would say on this subject, and he did so with a desire to give all credit to the present Government for the ability, the vigour, and the readiness with which they carried through the measures which they found in progress. He must add, however, that he firmly believed that nearly the same plan of operations would have been carried, through to the same successful result, though there had been no change in the Government.

The Duke of Wellington

had not uttered one single syllable of censure on the conduct of the noble Earl as to China. The noble Marquess opposite had charged her Majesty's Government with a want of veracity in the passage in the Speech from the Throne which regarded China, and he (the Duke of Wellington) must add that he thought that the noble Marquess had adverted to the order of his noble Friend, the Governor-general of India, on this subject, in a most invidious manner. He had thought it his duty to defend his noble Friend, the Governor-general, on this point, in consequence of what had been said by the noble Marquess. With respect to another point, the noble Earl said, that he had prepared ample means of carriage for the advance of the army from Peshawur, and he added that this would have been clearly the case if the camel drivers had not deserted. Why, it was well known that they always deserted from an army in the field if they had an opportunity. The fact was, that to keep them together, arrangements had not been properly made. The noble Earl said that he was not to blame; but if this was the case, others under him were to blame, for not having adopted proper precautions. For his own part, he did not wish to blame the noble Earl, or any one else, and what he had said was only in defence of his noble Friend the present Governor-general, who had been attacked, and who, in his opinion, had done right; and he therefore felt it to be his duty to defend him. With respect to the general conduct of his noble Friend in India, all that he would add was, that if the noble Earl, or any other noble Lord opposite, would name a day to go into the subject, he should be prepared to settle the question with them, and to defend in detail those matters which he had only adverted to that night.

The Marquess of Lansdowne

observed that all that he had said was, that rumours had gone forth—he could not tell how correct they were, but they had been very general—that it was intended to abandon Affghanistan without any regard to the prisoners, or to other considerations. He said that he trusted there was no grounds for such rumours; and he added, that although from what had passed he anticipated they were without foundation, still he hoped that the truth of them would be positively contradicted. The noble Duke also seemed to have misapprehended him with regard to the observations that he had made on the subject of the war in China. The noble Duke appeared from his tone to believe that by those observations he intended to make some personal allusions. It was impossible that he could do so, as he distinctly recollected the course that the noble Duke had taken on the question of that war. He had undoubtedly said that some persons, not insignificant in station, had taken an extraordinary course on the subject of that war, but he had never intended for a single moment to allude to the noble Duke; for he well remembered that the noble Duke, on the occasion when this war was under discussion, came forward most manfully, and gave an opposite opinion on the subject to that entertained by those with whom he generally acted.

Lord Colchester

trusted, in consequence of his near connection with his noble Friend the Governor-general of India, that he should be allowed to make a very few observations in reply to some remarks that had fallen from noble Lords opposite. In the first place, however, he must thank the noble Duke for at once coming forward and dispelling a thousand rumours that had been spread out of doors, which affected the character of his noble Friend the Governor-general, as having sacrificed the honour and interests of this country by the policy which he proposed to pursue. The noble Duke also stated that he was fully prepared, when the proper time came, to defend the military proceedings of the Governor-general, and he was satisfied that their Lordships would agree with him in thinking that no one could be a better authority on a subject of this kind than the noble Duke. With respect to the destruction of Jellalabad, he had reason to believe that this was not intended by the authorities in India. Instructions had been given for the destruction of the fortifications of that place, and it was not intended to go further. It should be recollected that the great portion of that army had not the usual characteristics of English soldiers, but that it was mainly composed of native troops, and these had had recently to pass through defiles which were full of the skeletons of their countrymen, who had been basely and traitorously murdered while proceeding through those places under the stipulations of a convention. The noble Earl, the late Governor-general, said that he would not bandy terms of depreciation and disparagement with the present Governor-general. He was not aware that any personal attack had been made on the noble Earl, but there certainly had been some censure and strictures passed on the policy and conduct of the late government. Such attacks, however, had been repeatedly made from various quarters of directly a personal nature on his noble Friend the present Governor-general, instead of any observations being directed against the Government, if the policy was condemned. He was quite sure that when the discussion, which would shortly take place, on the general policy of the Indian government occurred, that a triumphant answer would be given to all the charges and accusation which had been so lavishly brought against it. His noble Friend, when he went out to India, found one army broken in an enemy's country, and another ordered to advance to its aid, not nearly ready to proceed; at the same time also he found an exhausted treasury, and was compelled to find means to carry on a most expensive war at a great distance from the seat of Government; he also found that the progress of all the great public works had been discontinued for want of adequate means of carrying them on. Compare this with the present state of things—the war in Affghanistan having been brought to a successful issue—the Chinese war, which was such a heavy drain on the revenues of India, had been brought to a triumphant close—the revenue of the country having been brought to something like order, and the public works which had been suspended were now being proceeded with vigourously. With respect to the war with China, when the news of the first treaty having been broken off reached this country, the late government received some information and suggestions as to the future mode of carrying on the war. If inquiry were made it would be found that the government was recommended at once to send a large force to the mouth of the Yang-tsze-keang, and thus cut off the canal communication between the northern and southern provinces of the empire, instead of wasting their resources in detached at tacks on the coast. He was much mistaken, if the archives of the Admiralty were searched, whether suggestions on this point would not be found. Although great success, no doubt, had attended all their attacks on places on the coast, still, by proceeding with them the war would have continued without any result; but when once there was an interruption of the communication between the northern and southern provinces of China, there was a termination of the war. This result might have been brought about long be fore, if the late government had chosen to act upon the suggestions made to them, but which they neglected; he therefore did not think that they were justified in claiming any of the credit for having brought that war to a successful termination, a result which, in his opinion, was entirely owing to the conduct of the present Government.

The Marquess of Clanricarde

agreed that on the present occasion it might not be altogether expedient to go into a dis- cussion of the various topics which had been adverted to, but that it would be better to wait until further information on the subject was laid on the Table. He hoped that the papers relating to the Affghan war, as well as those relating to the war with China, would be laid before Parliament without delay, and also that a copy of the Treaty with the United States and the accompanying documents would be given. He thought all the questions growing out of these matters would be more ripe for discussion when the papers on the subject were before them. With respect to the Treaty with America, of which his noble and learned Friend had said that it would be a great means of securing a performance of peace between the United States and this country, he must say that he was not quite so sure of such a result, for he could not help perceiving indications of certain feelings existing, which would not lead to such a conclusion, for he found that it was said on a question which had not been settled by the Treaty in question, that if America would only be firm, England would give way. It was impossible, also, to keep out of view that in France the opinion prevailed that by this treaty we had given up to America the right of search. He did not say that this was the case, but still he trusted that this most important question to the interests of humanity had not been allowed to retrograde. He would not say more on the subject, for other and more convenient opportunities for discussing it would arise. He could not quite agree with what had fallen from his noble Friend the noble Marquess, that the silence of the Government in the Queen's Speech respecting the state of distress in the country left the subject as an open question. He recollected that noble Lords opposite made the most grave charges against the late Government for having done this, and these had very considerable weight in the country. He thought that the result of this was, that the Government had determined not to take any steps during the present Session to relieve the distress of the country by means of a relaxation of restrictions on our commerce. He thought that it was impossible that the present state of things could be allowed to go on without inflicting a heavy blow on the resources of this country, from which it never would recover. It was stated in the Commissioner's Speech that there was no doubt that the revenue of the country would not fall off. He had no doubt of this himself, as the Government had the means of turning the screw of the Income-tax; but there was a great difference between getting a revenue and restoring prosperity to the country.

The Duke of Wellington

intended to lay the papers alluded to by the noble Marquess before the House.

The Earl of Minto

thought, that it would be better to postpone the discussion of the several subjects which had been alluded to to a future time; but after what had fallen from the noble Lord (Lord Colchester) on the subject of the Chinese war, he felt called upon to make one or two observations. With respect to the expedition to the mouth of the great river, it was impossible that it could be undertaken at the time alluded to by the noble baron; for it was necessary, previously to undertaking it, that a survey of the coast should be made, and above all, the mouths of the various rivers. In 1841, when it was known that the ratifications of the treaty, called Keshen's treaty, were refused, it was determined to send an expedition to block up the mouth of the Yang-tsze-keang, and to intercept the communication by means of the canal. The expedition was impeded in its progress by a typhoon, and could not be got to the place of rendezvous in time for that season. Every one acquainted with the China seas must be aware, that in consequence of the prevalence of the monsoon, ships could not proceed up those seas at an earlier period than April. When it was found that the expedition could not proceed in consequence of the lateness of the season, every arrangement was made for it to proceed at the earliest period of the following year.

Lord Colchester

stated that when the general debate took place on the subject, he should be prepared with facts and dates. He was satisfied if the expedition had sailed from the river Canton at the earliest possible period great expense would have been saved.

Lord Ashburton

would not occupy the attention of the House for more than a few minutes in the discussion of the treaty in connection with the framing of which it had been his good fortune to have taken part. He should not have troubled the House on the present occasion, had it not been on account of the charges which had been made with respect to the right of search. The noble Marquess who followed the noble seconder of the address, had used so many kind expressions with regard to him, that it was difficult for him, to feel pain at the notice that he had taken of the treaty. On an occasion of that kind, when there was such a vast variety of important questions brought under notice—for instance, the Affghan war, the war with China, and the treaty with America, it was hardly possible, adequately to discuss their several matters. Indeed, there was not one of these questions which was not of sufficient importance for a debate by itself; and he should have thought that it must have been obvious that a question of such importance as the treaty could be otherwise than imperfectly discussed, when mixed up with other important questions. As the papers then on the subject of this treaty were to be laid before the House without delay, he trusted that the noble Marquess who was so indignant at the concessions made in the treaty would bring the subject forward, and he (Lord Ashburton) should have sufficient opportunity of vindicating himself, which he was confident that he should be able to do successfully, and to show that he made no improper concessions of boundary, nor important right as regarded the navigation of the river St. John, nor had abandoned any principle involving the right of search. He was not aware what could be said on the latter point, for not a single argument or discussion had taken place during the negotiations involving the right of search. The noble Marquess who spoke last was not, perhaps, perfectly acquainted with this subject. The fact was that we never claimed the right of search with respect to American vessels—we never attempted to exercise that right with regard to any country which did not concede that right to us, that right had never been exercised towards American vessels, and had never been claimed; it, therefore, did not come under discussion during the negotiations. This matter he would explain at greater length when the whole question came under discussion. The only question that existed on this subject with America, and which had evidently given rise to the misapprehension on the part of the noble Marquess, was not the right of search, but the right of visiting ships on the coast of Africa, with the view of seeing that every ship really belonged to the country whose flag it bore. The despatch of his noble Friend, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, on this subject, which had been so often referred to, had set the question at rest, and no further matter for discussion could arise. He would only add, that with respect to the other parts of the treaty, he was prepared to show, that no improper concessions had been made, but, that he had obtained much more than the late Government were prepared to accept, with the view to the settlement of the question, and that Lord Palmerston was prepared to accept terms much less advantageous than those embodied in the treaty. He trusted that the completion of this treaty would take away those grounds of dissension and complaint which had so long existed between this country and the United States. The only question which now remained to be settled was that respecting the Oregon territory, on the Columbia river. He did not believe that the non-settlement of that question would be productive of the evil consequences that had been supposed. He believed that there would be no great difficulty as regarded the settlement of this question. The proceedings that had been alluded to on the subject were not those of the American government, but of an individual member of the American congress. The proceeding was, as it were, the act of an individual Member of Parliament, and he did not believe that in consequence of it there was any ground for believing that it would give rise to a want of good understanding between this country and America. The fact was he believed that there had not existed a better understanding between the two countries since the war than existed now. He was satisfied that at the time when he left America there never was a period when there was a stronger desire there for the continuance of feelings of amity and good will between the two countries than there then was. He could assure the House that no event in the course of a pretty long life had afforded him greater satisfaction than having been a party to the completion of this treaty.

Lord Brougham

observed, that a mistake had been made across the Channel as to the number of vessels employed in enforcing the right of search. The number was never eighty, as was supposed, but fifty-one, and this had now been reduced to forty-nine.

The Earl of Haddington

said, that there had been fifty-one vessels, and there were now forty-nine. It had not been his intention to speak on the present occasion, but if he had supposed that the preparations for the Chinese war would have been discussed, he should have thought it his duty to come furnished with an accurate statement of the reinforcements which the present Government had thought it its duty to send out to the China seas with the utmost expedition. He was unwilling to run the risk of saying anything inaccurately; and would therefore now only say that, from the moment the present Government came into power, their earnest object had been to get ready all the ships necessary, and despatch them with the greatest possible speed. He thought it was due to the present Governor-general of India to say that the authorities at the Admiralty were astonished at the knowledge he showed with reference to maritime matters. His suggestions were serviceable and accurate; and if the authorities of that department had been disposed to sleep at their post, that noble Lord would not have allowed them. Nothing could be greater than the anxiety of the noble Lord, or more extraordinary than the intelligence he showed; and his communications with the Admiralty were perpetual till he went away. The noble Earl (Minto) had stated what the intentions of the late Government had been with respect to the preparations for the China war; and he was not disposed to dispute a single word the noble Lord had said. All he knew was, that the noble Lord had left a great number of ships in some state of progress and in full commission; and he believed there was not the slightest record at the Admiralty of the destination of those ships.

The Earl of Minto

did not mean to say that the present Government had not exhibited the utmost activity in sending out reinforcements to China; but he wished it to be understood that when the late Government left office the preparations for the campaign of the ensuing year were going on. The noble Lord had said, truly enough, that there was no record at the Admiralty of the destination of the ships; but nobody knew better than the noble Lord that the destination of ships was never stated until they were ready. The late Government, for seeing that consider able reinforcements, in ships and troops, would be necessary in the spring, for it would have been useless to send them out to China to reach earlier than April, prepared such reinforcements as they thought necessary; and he was ready to show that almost the whole of the ships that were in that service were prepared by the late Government.

Earl Stanhope

rose to postpone the Amendment which he had intended to move. The object of that Amendment was, to bring under the consideration of the House a subject of extreme—nay, of paramount importance; but the discussion which had already taken place had occupied so much time that he thought that he should be seeking their Lordships' convenience if he abstained from bringing for ward this question on the present occasion. He should, therefore, on Thursday next, for which day he believed no business had yet been fixed, propose to their Lordships a separate and substantive motion:— That this House do resolve itself into a committee of the whole House, for the purpose of taking into its most serious consideration the present condition of the productive classes of the United Kingdom, with a view of providing for their profitable employment and to the improvement of their condition.

The Bishop of Exeter

had listened, with great attention, to the debate in which their Lordships had been engaged; and he had been especially struck with the eloquent manner in which the noble Marquess had described the vast importance of the event, which had introduced the arts and the civilization of Europe into the vast dominions of China. The noble Marquess had forcibly depicted the responsibility which, by reason of this circumstance, attached itself to this country, and it was impossible for him not to enter most warmly and most feelingly into this subject. Great indeed was that responsibility; but high was his satisfaction that it devolved upon a Government, who would do their duty as the advisers of the Crown, as well as in their religious position as Christians. He felt persuaded that they would take care of this vast portion of the human race, a portion far exceeding all the population of Christendom; and he trusted that as we were now going to occupy a portion of this empire as a part of our own territory, that the Government would manifest a desire for the promotion of true religion—that they would not con tent themselves with transplanting the police and the warehouses of Great Britain, but that they would also establish churches, and set an example of true faith to the professors of idolatry, who, however, it was to be observed, were much more capable of conversion than almost any others.

Motion agreed to.

The Address to be presented to her Majesty by their Lordships, bearing white staves.