The Marquess of Normanbymoved the resumption of the adjourned debate on the amendments proposed to the abolition of the Punishment of Death Bill, after the third reading.
The Earl of Haddingtonwould not, after the discussion which had taken place, persist in pressing his amendment (for the continuance of capital punishment in cases of rape in which more persons than one were engaged). He, therefore begged leave to withdraw it.
The Earl of Winchilseawas of opinion, that the third clause exempted from the punishment of death the perpetrators of certain crimes that ought to be visited with the heaviest punishment. The crime to which the first part of the clause related, was one which he thought ought especially to remain a subject for capital punishment. He implored their Lordships not to withdraw the punishment of death from a crime so utterly abhorrent to the feelings of human nature. It was to be observed, that a conviction for that crime could not be obtained unless on the clearest and most undoubted evidence. Their Lordships, he was convinced, would do great violence to the moral feelings of a very large class of the community, if they exempted this crime from the punishment of death. He, therefore, moved, that all the words of the 3rd clause from the word "that" in the fifth line to the word "felon" in the seventh line be omitted.
The Marquess of Normanbywas glad that the noble Earl had proposed his 1569 amendment with so much brevity, because one of the worst things their Lordships could do was to enter into a discussion on an amendment of this kind. He thought there was some difficulty in dealing with this offence. Retaining the capital punishment, prosecution would in many instances be nugatory, and if they commuted the punishment to transportation for life, that would necessarily imply communion of the offenders with other prisoners, which would be highly improper; at the same time he should be ready to bow to the opinion of the House in this matter.—Amendment agreed to.
The Earl of Winchilseaagain rose to move the other amendment of which he had given notice. His object was, to keep the law in its present state. If the capital punishment in cases of rape were remitted, he very much feared the offence would alarmingly increase. He therefore begged leave to move, that the clause be omitted.
The Marquess of Normanbydefended the clause. If capital punishment were retained, the convictions would be greatly diminished. He hoped their Lordships would not be induced to depart from the principle of this clause, which they had already affirmed in a very full House.
§ Lord Ashburtonthought the commutation of the capital punishment would secure conviction where the offence had been committed, whereas the retention of the extreme penalty would in many cases not only prevent prosecution, but interfere with conviction.
The Earl of Wicklowwas favourable to the amendment. He admitted, that the reasonings of the law lords the other evening in favour of the clause would have been extremely cogent if they had been founded on fact, but he denied that such was the case. He could not agree that the paucity of convictions arose from an impression in the public mind, that the punishment was at all disproportioned to the offence. It arose entirely from the peculiarity of the proof in each case.
§ Their Lordships divided on the question that the clause stand part of the bill:— Contents 64; Not-Contents 60: Majority 4.
The Earl of Wicklowhoped, that the noble Marquess would extend the operation of this bill to Ireland.
The Marquess of Normanbyreplied, that it was his intention to extend it, at 1570 the earliest period, both to Ireland and, Scotland.
§ Bill passed.