§ The Duke of Wellingtongot up for the purpose of requesting the noble Viscount on the other side of the House to postpone the second reading of the Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill, which stood for next Monday. His noble and learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst) had taken, on former occasions, an active part in reference to that measure. It now unfortunately happened that his noble and learned Friend was exceedingly unwell, and most probably would be unable for some days to attend to business. He submitted, then, that in the absence of his noble and learned Friend, it would be most desirable to put off the measure until the House could have the advantage of his assistance in its discussion.
§ Viscount Melbournereplied, that it would be impossible not to accede to the request just made by the noble Duke; but, if he recollected rightly, the noble and learned Lord was not opposed to the principle of the measure, and they might, therefore, expect, that whatever discussion did take place upon the bill would occur in the committee; the committal of the bill might therefore be postponed; but that could hardly be said to form any reason against their proceeding with the second reading. There was another bill, however, which, if passed at all, ought to be proceeded with immediately. He alluded to a bill, printed papers bill, which had just come up from the Commons. He 1307 hoped that the noble Duke would not press the delay of that measure.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonbegged to assure the noble Viscount that no one could be more anxious than he was to see the question relating to the Irish corporations satisfactorily settled; but he could hardly think that any arrangement made, or any measure adopted in the absence of his noble and learned Friend, could prove satisfactory to the public. With respect to the other measure, he begged noble Lords to observe, that nearly all the learned Members of the House were at present either ill or out of town; they could only reckon upon the assistance of those who were then in the House—namely, the noble and learned Lord upon the Woolsack, and his noble and learned Friend near him (Lord Wynford.) The noble and learned Chief Justice of the Court of Queen's Bench, and his noble and learned Friend, the Chief Baron of the Court of Exchequer, were both out of town engaged on public business, and both would, of course, be anxious to take a part in any discussions in that House upon such a measure. Besides these, another and learned Lord (Brougham), was likewise absent from London. Upon such a bill as that to which the noble Viscount had just alluded, he should, of course, be desirous of having the opinion of those noble and learned persons, and, if possible, their concurrence. The noble Viscount surely could not wish to pass such a measure by surprise; it could not answer the views of the Government, or of any party in the state, to press such a measure hastily through the House, and he hoped, therefore, it might be put off. With respect to the second reading of the Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill, he must repeat his recommendation that it be postponed. It was a most important measure, and the second reading was a most important stage of that, as of every bill. He did not intend to oppose the second reading, but other noble Lords were opposed to the measure altogether, and they ought to be allowed an opportunity of delivering their sentiments and recording their votes; it was only fair to give them an opportunity of being present. The Session was not drawing to a close, else he would by no means recommend any postponement, but, on the contrary, would say go on with the bills forthwith; but now he confessed that he saw no reason for haste.
§ Viscount Melbournecertainly understood that the noble and learned Lord now absent in consequence of illness had no objection to the principle of the bill, having twice acceded to that principle. Any objections which he did entertain were merely to matters of detail, which could not be gone into on the second reading, but left for the committee, and he did not object to postpone the committal of the bill; all he desired was that this bill, already three weeks before them, might be read a second time on Monday next. The reason of the House being hurried, as generally happened towards the close of a Session, was, that they were too much in the habit of delaying business in the earlier part of the year, and for that, as well as for the other reasons which he had stated, he did hope that their Lordships would proceed on Monday next with the second reading of the bill.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, that whenever he delayed business he gave a reason for doing so; he did not delay business by neglecting it—he did not delay business, and then call upon those under him to help him out of the difficulties which that delay occasioned—he never asked that business should be delayed on his account, but he must say, that he thought the illness of his noble and learned Friend was a sufficient reason for postponing the second reading of the bill referred to, and that the absence of several noble Lords now attending to their public duties was a sufficient reason for the postponement of both bills.
The Marquess of Londonderryobserved, that other noble Lords, as well as those to whom reference had been made, were naturally anxious to take a part in any discussions which might arise upon the subject of municipal corporations in Ireland. There was one noble Friend of his in particular who had taken a leading part in the recent inquiry into the Government of Ireland (the Earl of Roden), who had not yet arrived from Ireland, but who was known to entertain very strong opinions against the bill. There were many other noble Lords connected with that part of the United Kingdom, who also ought to be afforded an opportunity of expressing their sentiments upon that important measure, which they regarded as a plan for giving increased power to the party who was considered to dictate all the measures and proceedings of her Majesty's Govern- 1309 ment. For these reasons he did hope that the noble Viscount would not seek to carry the principle of the measure till after Easter.
§ Viscount Melbourne, at the request of the noble Duke, had already postponed the bill for a considerable time. As to the absence of the noble Lords, upon which so much stress has been laid, he must be permitted to say, that however anxious he might be for the presence and assistance of those who were accustomed to take so prominent a part in their proceedings, he still thought that if business were to be put off on account of their absence, the House could not get on with any business at all. He wished to know whether the noble Duke would agree to letting the second reading be fixed for Monday, with the understanding, that if the noble and learned Lord were not well enough to attend in his place, that a further postponement should take place. When Monday came they would probably know better how soon the noble and learned Lord would be likely to be present.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid there was no use in agreeing to put off the second reading of the bill with any understanding; the noble Viscount might bring forward the bill and move its second reading on any day that to him might appear the most convenient. If he did propose the second reading in the absence of the noble Lords who might be expected to take a part in the discussion, he (the Duke of Wellington) would adopt such a course as the occasion might teem to him to require; he should then act as he thought proper. He had told the noble Viscount the inconvenience of thus pressing forward the measure; he had further to call his attention to the circumstance that at this period of the session noble Lords did not expect business of importance to come on in that House, and that many were still remaining in Ireland, and others were abroad. Why should they be brought from their homes sooner than was necessary. The circumstances stated were generally considered to be a sufficient ground for the postponement of public business. The noble Viscount had been informed of the illness of his noble and learned Friend, he might call the physicians attending him if he thought proper. If the noble Viscount himself happened to be ill, that circumstance would be con- 1310 sidered a sufficient postponement of any measure.
Viscount Melbourne.—Then let it stand for Friday, as the noble Duke appears to think that the noble and learned Lord may be sufficiently recovered by that day.
The Duke of Wellington.—If the noble Viscount chooses to quote my words, I beg he may quote exactly. I wished the second reading put off till the end of next week.
Viscount Melbourne.—Friday se'nnight is the end of next week. Let the second reading be fixed for that day.
The Marquess of Londonderrythen gave notice that, if on that day the noble Viscount proceeded with the bill, he should move an adjournment.
§ The Marquess of Lansdowneconceived that the proposed delay was unusual, and he thought it the more extraordinary, as the bill had already been delayed at the request of the noble Duke opposite;—[The Duke of Wellington—No.] The bill had been brought up from the Commons in the early part of the present month. A delay of three weeks had, therefore, arisen, and he thought it was quite as much as could be expected from his noble Friend to delay the measure till Friday week. He could not sit down without protesting against the doctrine that no important business was ever to be transacted before Easter. The Government could not help the absence of noble Lords.
The Earl of Haddingtonobserved, that the noble Duke had not said that the noble and learned Lord would be able to attend on Friday in his place, but had said that he feared he would not be able to attend to business at all till the end of next week. Even the supposing him favourable to the second reading, the noble and learned Lord might be called to account in that House for having supported the principle of the measure, and it would be only fair to give him an opportunity of explaining and defending his own conduct. The noble Duke had never said that business of importance ought not to be done before Easter; the noble Duke would be the last to recognise anything of the sort; but this every one must see, that Parliament had now been assembled two months, and not one measure of importance had been proposed in that House. Her Majesty's Government had left off using that House as a branch of the Legislature in which to originate measures, and therefore so little 1311 business was gone through in the early part of the session.
§ Second reading appointed for April 6th.