HL Deb 06 April 1840 vol 53 cc546-52
The Marquess of Londonderry

, on putting a question to the noble Viscount, and in stating to their Lordships the grounds on which he felt himself called upon to pursue the course he was then adopting, would not carry their memories back to the declarations of the noble Viscount on the appropriation clause, to the history of that measure or to the conduct which the Government, with the noble Viscount at its head, had pursued respecting it; neither would he bring back to their recollections the lectures which that noble Viscount had thought it his duty to deliver in their Lordships' House, as to the principle on which a Government ought to act, or as to the power which a Government ought to possess, to carry on efficiently the business of a great country; but he would shortly draw their Lordships' attention to what he thought was of great importance—the intentions of the noble Viscount as to the principles on which the Government of the country was in future to be carried on. He would draw their attention to what happened in May last, to the declarations made by the noble Viscount in that House, and to the consequences which had followed such declarations. Their Lordships would remember that in the beginning of May the noble Viscount (Melbourne) found it expedient to come down and declare his intention of resigning the Government of the country, finding himself no longer supported by that confidence in another place which he thought essential to carrying on his Administration. How much greater confidence was placed in him at the present moment the noble Viscount might, perhaps, hereafter learn. The noble Viscount, however, came down to the House early in May, and announced his resignation. At the end of the same month (he believed the 31st) he also came down to this House, and, though it was not very regular to refer to speeches or to quote opinions which had been delivered, yet, as many instances of that practice had occurred during the last week—especially on the important subject of the Corn Laws —and as he was very desirous of showing what were the principles then expressed by the noble Viscount, he trusted that the House would pardon him for reading his declarations on that day. He found that the opinions which he would now read were expressed by the noble Viscount opposite on the day to which he alluded. Lord Melbourne stated— He would never stoop to diminish the difficulties of Government by any abandonment of principle on his part. *** Although a warm and anxious friend to all measures which he really believed to be measures of reform, he was not prepared to adopt measures contrary to his feelings, opinions, and conscience, for the sake of gaining the support they might conciliate. The accusations to which he should be most sensitive of all were those of having deceived any one, or of having given a notion that he professed opinions which he really did not hold and maintain. By this honourable declaration it was clear that the noble Viscount did not wish to deceive the Conservatives or his colleagues. In that sense it was understood by himself and by the noble and illustrious Duke (Wellington) behind him, who got up and said— Let the noble Viscount persevere in the course he has resolved upon taking, and then let him trust to the good sense of this country for support. The noble Viscount did not reply, and seemed to accept the interpretation. But what had since happened? They found in the month of June a noble Lord (son of the noble Earl, the father of the Reform Bill), and high in the confidence of the Administration, seceding from them because he was not prepared to vote for further changes. Lord Howick said, "The Members brought in were of a description, by their avowed political sentiments, to produce an opposite effect from that to which the changes ought to have been directed." And he also said, "That he did not expect the House of Commons or the people to support the projected measures." Upon that the noble Viscount, instead of acting up to the principles which he had previously professed, fortified his Administration by the introduction of individuals, of talent and respectability no doubt, but of men tainted with principles entirely different from those which the noble Viscount had given them to believe were his own. Now, what were the declarations of those individuals? The first of these persons then introduced into the Administration was the Secretary-at-war, and they found him on his election at Edinburgh, in January, speaking to this effect:— He admitted that he advocated the ballot. There were, however, other points on which material difference existed. He, himself, was for enfranchising every man who held a house to the value of 10l.; but he would not confine that qualification within a given district. He was for extension beyond the boundary of parliamentary boroughs, but looked on pecuniary qualification as necessary, Now, this Gentleman who advocated the ballot, and who had expressed such opinions, said in his famous letter from Windsor, "I have the same opinions as a Minister I had as a private citizen." Now, differing so entirely on important questions with the noble Viscount and many other Members of the Administration, of what avail could be his services in the Administration? He must be on all great subjects merely a sleeping partner. The next appointment under this system was that of a person of great influence in Ireland. He was placed in a most important situation—the Vice-Presidency of the Board of Trade. Now this individual was notoriously hostile to almost every recent decision of the English Legislature. He was notoriously hostile to the union between the two countries, and he was notoriously hostile to the Protestant interests; but to the former he was more particularly hostile, so much so, that it could create no surprise that the inhabitants of Londonderry, and of all places throughout Ireland, should feel the greatest alarm. This Gentleman, at a meeting in Dublin, in January, 1831, declared,— If the union is not repealed within two years, I am determined that I will pay neither rent, tithes, nor taxes. They may distrain my goods, but who will buy, boys? Mind, that is the word, who will buy? I don't tell any man here to follow my advice, but, so help me God, if I don't do it, you may call me Sheil of the silk gown. The opinions which Mr. Sheil entertained might be shown also by the proceedings of a meeting, the report of which he would read to their Lordships. At Mr. Sheil's election for Tipperary, Sept. 16, 1839, according to the Dublin Evening Post, Archdeacon Laffan said,— As I have mentioned the Lords * * I hope they will not drive the people to a line of conduct the bare reflection upon which makes one shudder. When the pressure from without —the tide of popular indignation—the soul of the long suppressed but irresistible flood of a nation's wrath would sweep away every vestige of this lock-up house, and the dreadful and appalling shout should be heard from millions of British subjects—when' Delenda est Carthago would be the motto to demolish this sink of hereditary legislation—this Sir, I dread must and will be. In Mr. Sheil's speech which immediately followed, that Gentleman at once fully identified himself with Archdeacon Laffan in all the sentiments uttered, for he said— You have heard Archdeacon Laffan, with that just assent to all that he has said which his character is sure to command. Mr. Sheil also referred to what he termed the "factious proceedings of the House of Lords," and desired his auditors to "remember with what facility that House was coerced into acquiescence on the Reform Bill." The man who uttered such sentiments had been made by the noble Viscount the Vice President of the Board of Trade. They however, did not agree in opinion. With Mr. Sheil, also, on the Corn-laws and on many other important questions, the noble Viscount was entirely abroad. The Lord Privy Seal was the next appointed. With regard to that noble Earl, as he was the great champion of the Exaltados of Spain, and as he had received great distinction from them, he (the noble Earl) conjectured that was ranged with the Radicals in this country: His absence made his speeches rare, but he found on the second reading of the Electors Removal Bill, that the noble Earl said— I hold it to be impossible that you can maintain the finality of any measure, even though it should be the most excellent that human ingenuity can devise at the time it is adopted. The noble Earl therefore was a non-finality man, and this declaration showed that he entirely differed from the noble Viscount. From these various opinions their Lordships could see of what materials the Government was formed. He felt, therefore, justified in asking the noble Viscount to tell them whether he agreed in the declaration which the noble Viscount had made on the 31st of May, and to which he had taken the liberty of recalling his attention? He wished to know whether the noble Viscount concurred in those undefined changes which were advocated by many of his colleagues, or whether he still maintained the doctrine of finality which he had formerly avowed, believing that some check should be placed on the desperate attempts of dishonest agitators to overthrow the oldest and best institutions of the country? He was desirous of being informed whether all the questions of importance which agitated the country were to be one and all open questions? He would not object to one question being left open, on which every Member of the administration might be allowed to express his own opinion without reference to his colleagues; but all the questions which demanded the opinion of the administration were open questions. Were the different Members of the Government on all subjects allowed to act independently of each other? He felt confident that never was a Government placed in such a degraded situation. The whole Cabinet consisted of persons with publicly avowed and openly declared different opinions. On what grounds, then, he would ask, did such an adminis- tration stand? On what support, on what confidence, did the noble Viscount maintain his position? When the noble Viscount jeered at him on his congratulation, some time ago, on the success which the noble Viscount and his colleagues gained, and the support they met with in the House of Commons, he then thought that they had received enough defeats and sufficient disgrace; but almost every week since had added to the number of their defeats and increased their disgrace. He would read to their Lordships a curious abstract, which he wished to go forth to the world. He was desirous that the people of England should know, and should not be allowed to forget, the defeats with which the Government swaying their destinies met. He was desirous that that should take place though neither he nor they could do any good, for the Government had shown that they were determined to remain in office until the end of the world. He would read to their Lordships an abstract of the defeats which the present administration had suffered:

Ministers in minority. Commons. Lords
Session 1835 4 times 11 times.
Session 1836 11 18
Session 1837 9 5
Session 1838 21 4
Session 1839 8 11
Session 1840 (to March) 5
58 49
So then, during these years the Government had suffered 107 defeats. But this was not all. He would read to their Lordships the number of bills introduced by them, and which, though fostered by their protection, had fallen to the ground. The period to which he referred was during four sessions—from 1836 to 1839, both inclusive— Abstract of Bills brought in by Lord Melbourne's Government and not passed through Parliament.
Session 1836 29
1837 21
1838 34
1839 28
Total —112
These documents would show that he had not risen on light grounds to put the question to the noble Viscount, and to remind the country of the description of Government by which they were ruled. He called on the noble Viscount to say, whether in the declaration which he made in May, he had intended to deceive both his opponents and his friends, and to adopt the principles of that infusion into the Government which had caused the se-secession of his best and firmest supporters? He thought that he had said enough to show his clear right, under the circumstances of the case, to put these questions to the noble Viscount, and begging pardon to the House for the trespass which he had made on their time, he trusted that they would think with him that he had made out his case.

Viscount Melbourne.

—My Lords, it certainly is not my intention to answer many of the observations which the noble Lord has just made to the House. I apprehend that it was not expected by the noble Lord himself that I should do so; but lest it should appear a want of courtesy on my part to noble Lords, I think it my duty to reply to what I consider the main object—the question, which I collect and gather from the observations of the noble Lord. I beg leave in reply to say, that unquestionably I intend to adhere to all declarations of principles and opinions that were ever made by me; but it does not appear to me that either the appointments to which the noble Lord has adverted, or the measures which we have taken, are in the slightest degree foreign to, or inconsistent with, any of those declarations of principles and opinions.

Subject at an end.