HL Deb 02 April 1838 vol 42 cc261-4
The Marquess of Sligo

rose to state, that he had received a letter from a noble and learned Lord, (Lord Brougham) who took a very prominent part in the discussion of the Abolition of Slavery, expressing his great annoyance at the falsehoods which had appeared respecting him in the morning newspapers, and more particularly in the Courier, and requesting him (Lord Sligo) to take an opportunity of contradicting them in his place in that House. Not being intimately acquainted with the question, he thought he could not do better than read an extract from the noble Lord's letter. The noble and learned Lord said:— I never took any part at all in the plan, except to agree to it, as all the rest of the Cabinet did, among whom there never was the least difference, that I ever heard of, much less any division. We thought that some such state of transition was necessary, as I have constantly said, and said every time the subject has been debated; and when I found we had been deceived, as we also were about the necessity of a compensation, I did not hesitate an hour to take the opposite course. I rely, therefore, upon your losing not an hour in making this statement in your place in the House of Lords to set right the matter so much mis-stated. On receipt of this letter, he wrote to the noble Lord (the Secretary at War) stating his intention to comply with the request it contained, and from that noble Lord he received a reply, which he deemed it his duty also to read to their Lordships. It was as follows:— My dear Lord,—I lose no time in answering your letter of to-day, which I have just received. Not having seen the article in the Courier to which you allude, I have no remarks to make upon it. With respect to what I myself said in the House of Commons, I do not perceive that it is in the slightest degree contradicted by the extract you have sent me from Lord Brougham's letter, but, on the contrary, it is distinctly confirmed by it. I said nothing of any division in the Cabinet, of which, not having been a member of it, I probably should not have been aware, and which, if I had known it, I should not have thought myself at liberty to mention. The statement I made was simply this—That several members of the Cabinet were in the first instance in favour of giving entire freedom to the slave at once; that a plan for doing so was submitted by the Secretary of State to the West Indian body, but, being strongly objected to by them, the Government determined that it would be unsafe to proceed in defiance of their opposition; that I combated their decision, but that I found all my efforts to obtain its reconsideration in vain, in a great measure owing to the fact that the opinion of Lord Brougham was adverse to me, and that his opinion naturally carried with it an authority which outweighed any arguments that I could advance. Such, in substance, was the statement which I made in order to enforce my argument that Lord Brougham, in common with the leading advocates of the abolition of the system of apprenticeship, were themselves parties to its establishment. I am, my dear Lord, yours faithfully, HOWICK. War Office, April 2. Having read these extracts, he did not feel called upon to occupy their Lordships' attention any longer on the subject.

The Earl of Ripon

said, that having been in the Cabinet at the time, he did not wish to make any observations directly bearing on the point in question. This much, how- ever, he would say, that what had been represented—most inaccurately no doubt, and quite contrary to what had fallen from his noble Friend in the other House—was certainly by no means consistent with the facts as now explained. His noble Friend not having been a member of the Cabinet at the time, could not be acquainted with the circumstances, and if he had been, he would have felt bound not to reveal them.

Earl Grey

was understood to say, that he felt the inconvenience of introducing discussions of a personal nature in the absence of the persons to whom they related. He was aware that his noble and learned Friend, who was not then present, had been more closely pressed upon the subject of the abolition of slavery than any one else, but he knew of no differences in the Cabinet; he was not at all aware of any division on the subject. For himself, he confessed that, anxious as he had been for the total abolition of slavery, and finding that the time had arrived, when it must be abolished, still he did look with great apprehension and anxiety to the consequences of that measure, and therefore he had been anxious also that it should be accompanied by some intermediate measure to prepare the negroes for that state of freedom, which he and his colleagues were agreed in thinking they ought to possess, and he had consequently done every thing in his power to promote the measure as it ultimately passed. A noble Earl opposite had said that all the inconveniences and difficulties at present existing in connexion with this subject were owing to the defective manner in which the Emancipation Bill itself, had been concocted. He could only say, that every care had been taken in its construction, and he was not aware of the errors and imperfections which were spoken of. He felt, indeed, that there were very great causes of complaint as to the conduct of the Jamaica Assembly, and in performing a Ministerial duty as a Peer of Parliament—that was in presenting petitions intrusted to him for immediate abolition—he felt bound to say, that although all the measures had not been taken for the benefit of the slaves which the Imperial Parliament had a right to expect, yet he was of opinion that it was not just or expedient to proceed at that moment to the total abolition of the present system. He would not then detain their Lordships by stating the reasons which had been fully expres- sed there and elsewhere in favour of that course; he would only say, that he agreed in those reasons, and that especially he concurred in the view taken by the noble Duke opposite (Wellington) on that subject. He yielded to no man in his anxiety to put an end to the degrading system of human slavery; and he derived great comfort from reflecting that during the first Administration with which he had been connected, a total end had been put to the African slave trade—an object which, in the plenitude of his power, Mr. Pitt had never been able to effect; and that, in the last administration with which he had been connected, slavery itself had been abolished. The intermediate state of apprenticeship was intended to fit the slaves for freedom, and whilst he regretted that no step had been taken by the Colonial Assembly to forward the views of Parliament he thought it much more to the advantage of the negroes to take measures to ameliorate their present condition, and to enforce those steps which were necessary to prepare them for a state of full freedom, than to proceed at once to total abolition, which might be attended with fearful consequences.

Subject dropped.

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