Lord Broughamwished to ask the noble Duke opposite (Wellington) whether he had any objection to the accounts which he had given notice he should move for, relative to the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall, namely an account of the net ordinary revenue received by the Crown from the duchies for the years 1832, 1833, 1834, 1835, and 1836, distinguishing each year; and an account of the amount of the fines received from the Duchies for the same years, distinguishing each year.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, if those accounts had been produced to the other House of Parliament he could not object to their production to their Lordships; but if they had not been produced to the other House he should submit that those accounts ought not to be produced, because they were 1069 of a description that would tend to disclose circumstances relating to that which was undoubtedly private property.
Lord Ellenboroughsaid, the information which the noble Lord asked for would be of no value to him, because it would not lead to what he desired to know—namely how much the Crown had to receive in future. He apprehended the account had not been given to the House of Commons. Besides, he apprehended her Majesty had no authority to direct an account to be given of the receipts of his late Majesty. The servants of his late Majesty were, like the servants of any private individual, under an honourable obligation of secresy as to the transactions between them and their employers. There was no authority to compel them to produce those accounts, and he could not help thinking it would be a precedent of an injurious nature to compel their production. With regard to accounts relative to the future, that was a totally different thing, because if her Majesty directed her officers in those Duchies to give an account of the future receipt there could be no objection to that.
Lord Broughamsaid, the noble Baron was quite mistaken as to the use which he was pleased to suppose he (Lord Brougam) would make of them. Seven or eight years ago in the court of King's Bench, the whole mystery of these Courts was unravelled. He must positively confess that without much greater discussion than it was at all likely their Lordships could have on this subject, he could not admit that there was in this country any public department whatever which was not liable to the control and responsible to the authority of the Crown or of Parliament for the management of its affairs. It was said, indeed that the Crown could not compel the authorities of those duchies to render an account of their stewardship, because they were the servants of the late King. He had only to answer, that if the Crown could not compel them Parliament could. He could not understand on what ground it was supposed that these estates should be viewed as private estates. Even if it were granted their legitimate destination was a provision for the heir apparent to the Throne, still it would be necessary that they should be subjected to the control of Parliament.
Lord Aberdeenthought that it would be 1070 impossible for Ministers to accede to the motion of the noble and learned Lord. If the papers which he called for were granted no Ministry could afterwards refuse to make public all the details which the noble and learned Lord, or anybody else might require to be informed of respecting the affairs of those Duchies. In fact, it would be a surrender of the Duchies, their management, and an amalgamation of them with the other revenues of the Crown. It would be impossible afterwards to draw any distinction between the revenues of Lancaster and the hereditary revenues of the Crown. The noble Viscount opposite had no business to know anything at all about them, in his capacity of first Lord of the Treasury. All knowledge respecting them was sacredly confided to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and if he observed the oath which he had taken and by which he was bound to keep secret the affairs of the Duchy, it would be impossible for the House to obtain the information which the noble and learned Lord required. The House had no power to enforce the disclosures of such particulars. If the precedent was once admitted it must, in common sense, be followed up, and Parliament must take the control of these departments entirely out of the hands of the Crown. But he knew that the noble Viscount at the head of the Administration could advise her Majesty to dispense with the oath of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, so as to permit him to disclose the confidential particulars of his department. If that were done in one instance he did not know in what way he could oppose the production of any document, however confidential connected with these feofs,
Lord Hollandsaid, he could receive no dispensation, except by command of her Majesty; and he had no authority to communicate this information either to individuals or to the House. He could not help observing that there was no question before the House, and under such circumstance it was very inconvenient to discuss the matter. He should recommend the House, therefore, to refrain from expressing any opinion, or entering further into the discussion.
§ Subject dropped.