The Marquess of Londonderrybegged to recall the attention of their Lordships to the questions he had put the other day relative to the affairs of Spain, and to the answer which the noble Viscount had given him on that occasion. He had then asked, whether the Order in Council had been issued by this Government itself, or whether it had been issued at the instance, or he might say at the direction of the Government of Spain, or whether by the influence of General Alava, the Spanish Ambassador. At all events, he thought it right that those persons, whether called levies, mercenaries, or British auxiliaries, who were now assembling at the Isle of Dogs, should know the true state of the case. He wanted to know whether they were to be included in the terms of the late convention entered into by Lord Eliot. He had before asked this question of the noble Viscount, who replied in the affirmative. The noble Viscount, he was sure, was not willing to misrepresent the matter; and he had therefore a right to call on the noble Viscount to state what was the construction he put upon this treaty or convention, and what it was that made him put a particular construction upon it. The noble Viscount could not be ignorant of the decree said to be issued by Don Carlos, and published in all the Newspapers, which he, however, believed to be an authentic document. That decree was couched in these terms:—
"I order and decree as follows:—
"Article 1. All strangers, without distinction of rank or grade, who shall take up arms against my legitimate rights, or who shall serve, by any means whatsoever, the rebel army of the usurpation, shall be deprived of the benefits of existing laws, nor shall they be considered as included in the 'convention for the exchange of prisoners,' signed by my authority by my Commander-in-Chief, at Asarta, on the 28th of April last.
"Art. 2. All strangers above noticed who shall fall into our hands shall, after time being given them to perform their religious duties, be instantly shot."
Those persons who were now assembling at the Isle of Dogs probably did not know 170 of this decree—he should not state what they were, but he thought that they ought not to be deceived, and that there ought not to be two constructions put upon this convention, one by this Government, and the other by Don Carlos. He therefore asked the noble Viscount what was the construction he put upon this convention, and why he made the statement the other night? There was a considerable degree of mystification or delusion practising with respect to this and to the Spanish cause. It was impossible to hear the statement of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, without feeling that ignorance or wilful design had occasioned a mis-statement of facts, which made the noble Lord say what he did. The noble Lord had said that but a few provinces of the north of Spain had engaged in the contest against the Queen. It was all very well for him to say so, but what was the state of Don Carlos' affairs now, and what had been their state some time since? Why, but a few months ago, Don Carlos left England with scarcely a follower; in the most gallant manner he threw himself into Spain, and at that time there were hardly 5,000 men who followed his standard; but now, as he had been told and believed, there were no less than 36,000, well armed, trained, and officered, ranged under his command. Take the other position; the Queen's troops at that time numbered 50,000 men; these troops with four Generals in succession had been beaten, and of the 50,000 above 8,000 as he had been told and believed, had deserted to Don Carlos, and the rest of the force was nearly destroyed. Such was the state of the four northern provinces of Spain, and in those four provinces there were only half a million of men; but then they had kept all the forces and all the resources of the other provinces in check, and Don Carlos was daily increasing in strength and power; and therefore, really, for the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to declare that Don Carlos had no chance of success was to keep the people who were now going out in a state of wilful ignorance, when they ought to have their eyes opened. He hoped that the Order in Council would again be taken into consideration, and he begged to ask the noble Viscount when the papers which had been promised the other day would be presented. He begged the noble Viscount to give him an answer on the subject 171 of this decree, as he believed it to be authentic, and it was directly contrary to what the noble Viscount had assured the House was the true construction of the convention.
§ Viscount Melbourneobserved, that all he had said was, that in his opinion those who embarked as volunteers in the service of the Queen of Spain would be entitled to the benefits of the convention. Of course he could not know the construction that would be put upon it by the powers in Spain; and he repeated that all he had said was to express his opinion on the subject. With respect to the decree now referred to, he believed that it was not authentic, that it was not issued by the person whose signature it professed to bear. He could not state positively that such was the case, but that was his full and entire conviction, and, therefore, in his mind the supposed decree did not in the least impugn the opinion he had expressed on a former occasion. The noble Marquess had gone into a statement of what he represented to be the present state of Spain, with a view to contradict his noble Friend, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. As he understood the noble Marquess, his noble Friend was represented to have said, that the war was confined to the three northern provinces of Spain. Such he (Lord Melbourne) believed to be the fact. There had been no movement of a similar kind in any other part of the country; and the assertion of his noble Friend was perfectly compatible with the statement made by the noble Marquess himself as to the supposed relative condition of the two armies. That statement, he believed, to be entirely mistaken; but he should not now trouble their Lordships with going into the proof that it was so. The papers for which the noble Marquess had moved should be presented as soon as possible.
The Marquess of Londonderrywas sorry to mis-state anything that had been stated by the noble Lord, but he could not acquiesce in the rejoinder of the noble Lord, who maintained that the insurrection was confined to the two northern provinces, and that the success of Don Carlos was impossible. How could the noble Viscount reconcile his construction of the treaty with the decree of Don Carlos.
§ Viscount MelbourneI repeat that I believe that decree to be a forgery; and whether Don Carlos will succeed, or not, 172 I do not know. I repeat, however, that he is not supported except in the northern provinces.