§ Lord Lyndhursthad to present a Petition from the debtors confined in Horsemonger-lane gaol for debt, praying their Lordships to pass the Bill for the Abolition of Imprison- 1129 ment for debt. He must, however, say, that he thought it impossible this Bill could pass in any shape during the present Session. Their Lordships would probably agree with him when he told them that it empowered the Crown to appoint fifty Commissioners, and besides these Commissioners, fifty Registers, and in addition, fifty other officers, called Ushers. There were also various other officers mentioned in this Bill. It appeared to him that before they could pass a Bill of this kind, which varied so greatly from the existing law between creditors and debtors, which imposed so vast a burden on the country, and which placed so much patronage at the disposal of the Ministers of the Crown, they must give to it more consideration than there was the least possibility of their being able to give it this Session. It had been said, that the late Attorney-General approved of the Bill. He had made an inquiry as to that statement, and found that though his hon. and learned Friend certainly was favourable to an improvement in the law of arrest, yet he was by no means so to the provisions of this Bill, in which he thought it necessary that many alterations should be made. He was informed that there were only forty Members present in the other House when the only discussion took place which had occurred on the Bill, and their Lordships might see from the journals that an hon. Member moved that the House be counted. The third reading of the Bill was appointed for twelve o'clock in the day, and though a learned Friend of his, who was highly qualified to deliver an opinion on the subject, requested a postponement of the Motion, not being able to attend, the learned promoter of the Bill refused to attend to his request.
Lord Broughamthought the noble and learned Lord must have been taking another lesson from the attacks which had been made on the Commissioners appointed to institute an inquiry into the Municipal Corporations; for observations more calculated than were the noble and learned Lord's to mislead those who had not attended to what had passed in this House on this subject he had never heard. Would not any one think from the speech of his noble and learned Friend, that the Government and the promoters of the Bill were pressing to pass it—were impatient of any postponement—were earnestly urging it forwards this Session—were positively refusing to allow of any delay. His noble and learned Friend had gone into a particular statement 1130 of what had occurred elsewhere, his object being to show how anxious the Government were to press the Bill, and to have placed at their disposal 150 offices. What was the fact? His hon. and learned Friend proposed to him to take charge of the Bill—he not being connected with the Government, but having originated the commission and in a great measure the Bill itself, he did take charge of the Bill, and he would ask their Lordships in justice to say, whether the first time he proposed the Bill he did not propose to postpone it. Every time he had mentioned it, he did so with an expression of regret that at so late a period he felt they could not go on with the Bill, with the least hope of doing it justice. It was true, a number of officers were to be appointed, but they were necessary. With regard to the Commissioners he might remind their Lordships that this Bill was to have been an adjunct to his other Bill—the Local Courts' Bill. Now if there was any man in this House who knew what became of the Local Courts' Bill, and the fate of it lay heavy on his conscience— that man was not himself. He never had said that Sir Frederick Pollock approved of the provisions of this Bill, but he did say that the Bill originated in the report of the Common-law Commissioners, appointed partly by his noble and learned Friend, and afterwards by himself, and four out of five of whom reported in favour of those principles and provisions on which this Bill was framed. The debate might have taken place at a late period of the night on the second reading, but he was informed that in one day it was for eleven hours under discussion, in a Committee of the whole House, and that it underwent the most anxious and elaborate consideration for weeks in a Select Committee. He did not intend to press the Bill this Session, because he was aware that it could not pass. As to the expense of this Measure, he thought he could pledge himself to show to their Lordships that the saving which would be effected in the property of both creditors and debtors would amount to between 200,000l. and 300,000l. a year.
§ Lord Lyndhurstnever regretted the course he took with respect to the Local Courts' Bill, and it formed another ground of objection to the present Bill, that its machinery was obviously constructed with a view to its being engrafted on the very measure which he had so strenuously opposed. It was true the Government had not said a word about this Bill, with the 1131 exception of his noble and learned Friend, who certainly was not part of the Government, however intimately he might be connected with it; but on the other hand, he found that their Lordships' Journals were to be searched, with a view to a charge being made against them that they had not passed this amongst other Bills, this measure being one which his noble and learned Friend himself admitted was so complicated, and required yet so much consideration, that it was postponed necessarily. Such was the course pursued by his Majesty's Attorney-General, who was one of the Ministers of the Crown, though he was not a Cabinet Minister.
§ Petition laid on the Table.