§ The Earl of Aberdeenthought it necessary to say a few words on a subject to which he had before called the attention of the House. Their Lordships would recollect that some time ago, in consequence of assertions made elsewhere from high authority, that the French Government had entered into no engagement whatever on the subject of 1027 Algiers, he had moved for the production of certain correspondence and other papers, with the view of explaining the real nature of the engagements entered into by that Government. That correspondence and those papers, or the greater part of them, were now upon the Table, and he would at present say nothing more than this:—That he was quite willing to leave their contents to those principles of interpretation which had hitherto guided the judgment of men of sense, honour, and integrity. In addition to those documents, others, for the production of which he had not moved, existed, furnishing ample evidence that those engagements had been confirmed not only by the personal declarations of the king of the French, but from the mouth of his Minister. The noble Earl had said, that communications had taken place between the two Governments on the subject; and, in consequence, he had deferred bringing it under the notice of the House. He had very recently seen statements, however, from which it would appear, that all negotiation must now be considered at an end; and whatever might be his feeling regarding the papers, or his opinion of the conduct which they indicated, he wished the noble Earl opposite to understand, that he made no Motion, gave no notice of Motion, and did not even ask a question upon the subject. The noble Earl had more than once stated his opinion of the great importance of the topic; and in that opinion of the noble Earl he entirely roncurred. He might indeed think that Marshal Clausel rode his hobby a little too hard, when he said, that the possession of Algiers might eventually be a source of as great wealth and power to France, as the East-Indies were to England; yet it certainly was difficult to exaggerate the advantage it would give to any European power, and above all to France. He was, of course, at all times most ready to co-operate with Ministers in what might be considered due to the honour and interests of Great Britain. That honour and those interests were in the keeping of the noble Earl; and, after the opinions expressed by that noble Earl, it was impossible that there should not have been much negotiation and frequent communication within the last two years and a-half. Reserving to himself the liberty of returning to the subject on any 1028 future occasion, he would conclude by expressing a hope, that the noble Earl would be anxious at the proper time to make full communications to the House, and to prove that the honour and interests of the Empire had not been injured in the hands of the noble Earl and his colleagues during the progress of the negotiation.
§ Earl Greysaid, as the noble Earl meant to make no Motion—to give no notice of Motion—and not even to put a question, perhaps it was almost unnecessary that he should make any observations. He took it for granted, that the present remarks of the noble Earl had been called forth by the accounts published in the newspapers of what had occurred in the Chamber of Deputies. He could say, that he had also read in the papers an account of what passed; but, excepting through that channel, Ministers had not yet received any information from the British resident in Paris. The House, therefore, would not think it right in him now to enter into any discussion of the subject; indeed, on a question of this nature, resting on what the noble Earl thought a positive engagement on the part of France, it was impossible, standing in the situation he occupied, to enter into any explanation without public inconvenience. Therefore, all he could state was this:—That in this, as in all other transactions, Ministers had endeavoured according to the best views of policy they could form, to support the honour and interests of the Empire. Whenever the proper time came, for which the noble Earl very fitly reserved himself, he trusted that he should be able to show that Ministers had not been wanting in attention to these great and essential objects.
The Marquess of Londonderryarraigned the whole foreign policy of his Majesty's Government. With respect to Holland and Belgium, a convention had been laid on the Table of the House, and he wished the noble Earl to state whether he meant to originate any discussion on that convention, or to name any day for taking into consideration the matters connected with it. When, after sending out a large squadron, and incurring a large expense, he found that it all ended in leaving Holland and Belgium in the same situation which they occupied in October, 1832, he could not avoid censuring the course which Ministers had pursued. Again, if they looked to the east, they 1029 would find that at one time the interests of this country at Constantinople were left without any protection whatever, or, at all events, with very insignificant protection. We had no known and accredited ambassador there when measures of the greatest importance were going on. Our ambassador who should have been there, was detained six weeks at Naples, perhaps by adverse winds, perhaps by some negotiation for a higher post. When they witnessed such circumstances as these, it was impossible that he, and others who had been connected with foreign affairs, should not come forward to demand information. He would ask, had they now any organ at Constantinople to uphold the interests of this country, and to watch over the effects which passing events might have on the welfare of Europe? He believed that Great Britain was not represented at all there; and he had a right to say, that our foreign policy had been greatly neglected by the noble Earl and the present Administration. It appeared that they were entirely incapable of enabling this country to maintain that high position which she had formerly held, and which she ought still to hold, in the east. There were many points in the foreign policy pursued by Ministers, as well as that which related to Algiers, which were exceedingly objectionable. No reason whatever had been given why France should retain possession of that country; instead of uniting with those nations who could uphold the interests of Great Britain against the power of France, the policy of Ministers had been to turn their backs on those states, and to tie themselves to France. He admitted that France was as great a country as any on the face of the globe, but he wished the connexion with that country not to be too strictly bound. He could not but think, that if too closely embraced, France would be very apt to act mischievously. The embargo on Dutch vessels he considered most unjust and impolitic. It had, however, in consequence of some understanding with France, been at length removed. He wished a day to be fixed by the noble Earl for going into the whole of the foreign policy of the country, which ought to be discussed with as little delay as possible.
§ The Earl of Riponsaid, it was not his intention to discuss with the noble Marquess those various points connected with foreign affairs which he had introduced, 1030 and with which he had intermingled sundry obscure remarks. It would be improper for him, after the answer of his noble friend, to enter upon any such, extended discussion. He would not, in any way, touch upon the affairs of Belgium or of the east, or upon the domestic policy that Ministers had pursued, which, upon another occasion, it might be proper to advert to at length; he should therefore confine himself to one or two short remarks. It was not in his contemplation to state to their Lordships any opinion on the convention which had been laid on their Table. In producing that convention, all that was necessary had been done by Ministers; and he should be content if any noble Lord, or any Member of the other House, called for the opinion of Parliament with respect to it. If it were the purpose of his Majesty's Ministers to call for the approval of any of their proceedings, they would, of course, give their Lordships an opportunity to express their opinion. No such necessity, however, existed in this case; and consequently they were not called on to originate a motion, as the noble Lord wished them to do. The noble Lord had made remarks—first, on the individual who was now our ambassador to Turkey, and then on the Gentleman who, though not clothed in the higher rank of ambassador, had for a time performed the functions of one at Constantinople. The noble Marquess, in speaking of the delay in the arrival of Lord Ponsonby at Constantinople, seemed to think that the noble Lord might have been prevented from reaching his post because he was engaged in a negotiation for a higher and more profitable situation at St. Petersburgh. This was an insinuation on the conduct of that individual which it was scarcely worth while to answer. He had the satisfaction, however, of stating, and he was sure the noble Marquess would be glad to hear it, that there was not one word of truth in the insinuation—that it was a perfectly gratuitous assertion. Where the noble Lord had picked it up be could not conceive. As to Mr. Mandeville, who acted as chargé d'affaires between the recall of Sir Robert Gordon and the arrival of Lord Ponsonby, and who was accused of inefficiency by the noble Marquess, it should be observed, that he was placed in that situation in consequence of circumstances that could not be controlled; and whether 1031 he was inefficient or insignificant, he would say, that if in the course of the proceedings any thing had been done wrong, Mr. Mandeville was not the person who was blameable for it. He would put it to the noble Marquess, who, he knew, was imbued with all that honourable feeling which characterized his profession, whether it was fair to throw on persons who were absent a certain responsibility, instead of attaching it to those who were present, and who were able to defend themselves.
The Marquess of Londonderrysaid, he had made no charge against the respectable individual alluded to, nor had he persevered in the opinion that an unnecessary delay had taken place in the arrival of Lord Ponsonby. The spirit of his whole argument was, that all those transactions required the attentive consideration of that House. When they looked at the extraordinary missions of Lord Durham and Sir Stratford Canning, they would find that, though an enormous expense had been incurred, they had done no good. What results had those two missions been attended with? If the noble Earl would assist him in bringing forward the question, he would undertake to prove that, in every point of foreign policy, his Majesty's Ministers had degraded this country, and removed her from the high situation which she once held in Europe.