§ Viscount Melbournemoved, that this Bill be read a third time.
The Earl of Wicklowbegged to inquire of the noble Viscount, whether, in the absence of the Lord-lieutenants, the Vice-lieutenants had the power given them by the Bill of appointing to commissions in the Militia? and whether the Deputy-lieutenant was to have a power, in the Lord-lieutenant's absence, to exercise all his functions?
§ Viscount Melbournereplied, that the intention of the Bill was, to empower the Lord-lieutenants, in case of long absence, to appoint Vice-lieutenants to act in their place. The noble Earl would see, that it was necessary for the Vice-lieutenants to have the power to which his question referred. They would have, in fact, all the power of the Lord-lieutenants.
The Earl of Wicklowthought the answer of the noble Viscount satisfactory, but apprehended it would be necessary to alter the wording of the clause.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, that he had suggested the difficulty; but his object was, that there should, at all times, | be some competent and responsible authority present in every county, in case of disturbance. He recommended his noble 1315 friend to be satisfied with the responsibility of the Lord-lieutenants, as a sufficient security that they would not appoint Vice-lieutenants without necessity. If they were appointed permanently, as in the case of a protracted absence of the Lord-lieutenant to attend Parliament, or for any other purpose, then they must necessarily have the power of appointing officers in the Militia. If they were only appointed for a short time, this power would not be necessary; nor was it probable that the Vice-lieutenant would exercise it, as he would not be able to do so, without invading the authority, and encroaching upon the patronage of his superior.
The Marquis of Londonderry,in consequence of what had fallen from his noble friend, was disposed to acquiesce in the propriety of leaving these appointments in the discretion of the Lord-lieutenant; but all his other objections to the measure remained in full force. It was certainly a. very strong measure, to give to his Majesty's Government at once the patronage of thirty-two important and dignified situations; and he saw no hopes that they would appoint to these situations such persons as had been most distinguished for their loyalty. He was sorry that the Bill was pressed forward with so much hurry, and before certain Returns, which he had moved for, were laid on the Table. He contended, too, that unless a strong case were made out against the governors of counties, and Custodes Rotulorum, they would be the most proper persons to be Lord-lieutenants. Political servility should be no recommendation. Such persons would have considerable influence over the elections, and over the appointment of Magistrates. The latter would, of course, therefore, be selected from among those who entertained the same opinions as the Lord-lieutenants; and the elections would also be determined as they might give the impulse. He had another objection to the measure. He feared it was intended to be the forerunner of another measure for abolishing the office of Lord Lieutenant of Ireland; and if he were sure that were the case, he should strongly oppose it. The abolition of that office would be one of the most fatal steps ever taken, and would tend more than any other that could be imagined to dissever Ireland from this country.
Lord Farnhamwas sorry that the measure was pressed to a third reading in its 1316 present state, as, with a little more consideration, many of the imperfections of the Bill might have been corrected. The Bill did not give the same power to the Lord-lieutenants of Irish counties, as were possessed by the Lord-lieutenants in England. By this distinction, the office in Ireland would be in some measure degraded; and he doubled whether it would be so much an object of ambition as it was desirable to make it. From the construction of one clause, it appeared doubtful, whether the power of appointing the Colonels, as well as the other officers of the Militia, was meant to be conferred upon the Lord-lieutenants. That ought to be amended; and the clause ought to be so worded as to leave no doubt that such a power was to be conferred on the Lord-lieutenants. The Bill, altogether, appeared to have been drawn up in rather a careless manner. If the noble Viscount would give him the opportunity, he would willingly confer with him, in the sincere desire of rendering the measure more complete and efficient than it then was.
§ Viscount Melbournesaid, he should not object to make the alteration proposed by the noble Lord, if it was the impression of their Lordships that it should be made. It certainly was intended to give that power to the Lord-lieutenants; and if the clause was worded so as to make that doubtful, he had no objection to postpone the motion, and have that clause amended.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonwished the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to have the power of objecting to appointments proposed by the Lord-lieutenants of counties.
§ Third reading postponed.