Lord Napierpresented a petition against the continuance of Negro Slavery; and in doing so took the opportunity of referring to the proposition he had made on a former night, that a Committee of their Lordships should go out to the West-India Islands, in order to furnish the House with the best information upon the question of negro slavery, before they undertook to legislate upon it. Before he made that proposition he had had no communication whatever with anybody upon the subject. He had no West-India property, he never had had any, and he never expected to have any; but still he felt interested on the subject, from the knowledge of the colonies which his professional life had given him. Since he 965 made the proposition to which he now referred, he had had communications with different gentlemen connected with those places, and he found that they much approved of his plan. As there were several noble Lords who strongly supported the question of the manumission of slaves, no doubt, whenever the country called on them to undertake the duty of going out as a Committee of Inquiry, to examine into the subject, they would show their perfect readiness to obey the call. He had never once expressed his opinion on the matter, but he would now do so, and would state distinctly, that in his mind slavery in all its branches was a curse, and a heavy curse; but how to remove it was a question which their Lordships could never learn to answer properly in this country alone. Their Lordships must remember, that the colonies were composed of islands taken from other countries during the war, as well as of those which had long been in possession of this country; and he would defy their Lordships, by any regulation they might make here, to embrace all the different interests that existed in these various islands. It was impossible they could justly understand all these differences, unless they sent out a body of their own Members thither. He was ready, for one, to become a member of that committee; and he was satisfied, that when this appeal was made to those noble Lords to whom he had before alluded, they would come forward and show their readiness to give their services in favour of the cause they had so often advocated, or, if they did not, they must for ever after hold their peace.
§ Earl Stanhopedid not rise to oppose the motion for laying this petition on the Table, but merely to make a suggestion in accordance with that thrown out by the noble Lord who had just taken his seat. The suggestion was, that if the committee mentioned by the noble Lord should be appointed, the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack was of all others the most fitted to be sent out as its chairman. He made that proposal because, if he remembered rightly, that noble and learned Lord, in the very first speech which he made in that House, declared most solemnly, that one of the two questions which he considered to be of paramount importance was that of the abolition of slavery. It was not, therefore, improbable that the noble and learned Lord 966 might consider the going to the West Indies, in order to assist in the abolition of negro slavery, as one of the paramount duties of his new office. The noble and learned Lord had distinctly asserted the paradox which he (Earl Stanhope) had just mentioned. He would not enter into any argument as to the truth of that paradox, but would merely observe, that it was like saying, when the homestead was on fire it should be considered a paramount duty on the part of the farmer to hasten to extinguish the flames that threatened to burst out in a stack in a distant part of the farm.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, I am fully sensible, my Lords, as well from experience here as elsewhere, how very inconvenient a long, tiresome, and somewhat irregular discussion must always be,—and in spite, my Lords, even of the charms of the noble Earl's eloquence, I cannot help regretting the time we have lost in the late discussion. Your Lordships may he perfectly secure, therefore, that I shall not give rise to another such, but I am sure your Lordships will agree that I could not help rising, after the very pointed allusion which the noble Earl has made to me. The noble Earl has, in a very good-humoured manner, alluded to what he considers a most extraordinary paradox. [Hear! from Earl Stanhope.] Oh yes, my Lords, I am perfectly well aware that the noble Earl will always stand up for what he has once laid down, and that even after it has been proved to be absurd,—after every one else has admitted the absurdity of it,—the noble Earl will still stand up for it—ay, stand up and speak for it as often as your Lordships like, and perhaps a little oftener. However, my Lords, I have been called upon to explain a paradox which the noble Earl considers to be the most extraordinary possible, and which he thinks to be deserving of the reprobation of all wise men,—probably, because he feels that it is deserving of his own reprobation. The noble Earl says, that I have declared negro slavery to be a subject of paramount importance to this country; and he says, that to make such a declaration is as ridiculous as to say that we ought to go abroad to prevent a distant misfortune when our house is on fire at home. Now, my Lords, it is very possible that I may have been unfortunate in the choice of ah expression; that I may have selected an 967 extraordinary, an ill-adapted, an unnecessarily strong—nay, an extravagant epithet; but that, ray Lords, is a mishap that, befalls all men at times, and especially when speaking about subjects upon which their feelings and their conviction are most strong; nay, my Lords, this even happens sometimes to the noble Earl himself, who, however chaste his eloquence undoubtedly is, does sometimes indulge in the use of epithets, which, if one considers them very closely, do not always appear the most appropriate. However, my Lords, what I meant when I said that this subject was one of paramount importance to the country, was this,—I meant, that let our distresses be ever so great, let the disturbances which prevail at home be ever so much to be deplored, still it is the province of a wise, and, permit me to add, of a just Government, to fulfil the duty of justice rather than of mercy; and I call that a subject of paramount importance which involves the fulfilment of the sacred duty of justice—a duty that is never to be evaded, and the non-performance of which can never be excused by any condition of unhappiness, no matter how great, at home. Well, my Lords, so much for the use of the epithet which has scandalized the correct and critical judgment of the noble Earl. Then, my Lords, the noble Earl went on in a most facetious manner to contend, that I, and that I only, ought to be chairman of a committee which I have learnt to night, for the first time, that your Lordships are about to appoint, and to despatch upon a voyage to the West-India Islands. How this committee is to be constituted we have not heard. I hope it is not to consist of the present Ministers, nor do I wish so ill to the noble Lords near me,—the ex-ministers,—as to desire that they should be sent on such a mission: but, my Lords, if you will take the authority of the noble Earl, be the committee constituted as it may, I am the only fit person to be chairman of it. Now, my Lords, far be it from me to presume to say, that the noble Earl is not quite right in this matter; only your Lordships will, I am sure, see that it is my duty to suggest to you that I might be missed at home. It is not unlikely, my Lords, that the suitors in Chancery might object to the course proposed by the noble Earl; they might be unreasonable enough to think, that although their houses would not be on 968 fire, yet they might be altogether dismantled while I was voyaging to the Indies, and that although they would stand in no great degree of danger of being burned, yet they might happen to starve during the absence of the Lord Chancellor on such an expedition. This, my Lords, might be the view which the Chancery suitors would take of the matter; and as it is obvious that there is nothing too unreasonable for them to be guilty of, after having committed the offence of differing from the noble Earl, it is not improbable that they may borrow from the noble Earl himself those excellent observations which the noble Earl has made tonight about paradoxes. However, if the noble Earl thinks that I am worthy to be consulted in the matter—if, by what he has said, the noble Earl meant to ask my opinion as to the propriety of my being chairman of such a committee, I will tell him candidly that I cannot yet satisfy him upon that point. Whether I go or stay will depend very much upon who are to go with me. I must inquire into that first; and, to begin, let me ask the noble Earl if he intends to make one of the party;—let me ask the noble Earl whether he will go with me, and, if he will, whether I may calculate upon the pleasure of hearing seven or eight speeches from him, upon the same subject,—they must be upon the same subject in the space of four-and-twenty hours; and whether the noble Earl will promise, that they shall all of them be as entertaining and as instructive as three or four speeches made upon the presentation of a petition, but having no connexion whatever with the subject of that petition? I wish to know, before I decide, whether I am to enjoy the pleasure of such intellectual amusements. I wish to know whether the noble Earl will take care to get himself embarked in the same bottom as myself, for that is essential, as I am sure your Lordships will see. I wish to know and to be assured as to these facts, and I therefore put it to the noble Earl whether he is ready to give me security,—such security as may be approved by two Masters in Chancery,—and enter into recognizances that he will go in the same ship with me, and undertake to debate everything that occurs on the voyage, or that does not occur on the voyage, but may happen to suggest itself to the noble Earl,—whether the noble Earl will thus debate, and whether, moreover, he will carry on that 969 debate in that feeble voice of which he complained last night [cries of "No, no," from Earl Stanhope]. I beg the noble Earl's pardon; he certainly said last night, that "he raised his feeble voice, and wished to express forcibly;" such were the noble Earl's epithets; it is not for me to say whether the noble Earl in his speech attended to that definition which an eminent critic has given of fine writing, and which the noble Earl will probably see, is equally applicable to fine speaking,—namely, "apt words in apt places:" it is not for me, my Lords, to say whether the noble Earl attended to this definition, or whether he put the epithets in the wrong places, fixing "feeble" where "forcible" ought to have been, and "forcible" where "feeble" would have been more appropriate—it is not, I say, my Lords, for me to pronounce on this matter, but such were most assuredly the epithets of the noble Earl; and as he has been so hypercritical upon one of my epithets, he cannot surely complain of my also turning critic upon his. Well, then, my Lords, as I was saying,— will the noble Earl give me good and sufficient security that he will embark himself in the same ship with myself,—I will not insist upon his fixing his birth in the same cabin;—that he will speak during the voyage such speeches as he speaks here, with the same iteration, in the same feeble tone, and with the same agreeable absence of reasoning and argument? Will the noble Earl, I say, secure to me well and sufficiently, and legally, these advantages,—all these advantages, for I will abate none of them? If the noble Lord will, and will inform me also who the others are who are to go with us—how we are to voyage, and what we are to do when we reach the end of our voyage,— then, and not till then, for then only shall I be in possession of all the circumstances of the case,—then, I say, I will, like a good and just Judge, decide whether I will go or stay. I am sure your Lordships will see that I should ill become the high judicial office which I fill, if I were to give judgment in such a case before the noble Earl has satisfied me on these points, for until then I shall not have learned all the facts of the matter before me; and, without being informed of these, it is quite impossible that I can give a sound and satisfactory decision.
§ Petition to lie on the Table,