§ Mr. StreeterI beg to move amendment No. 64, in page 45, leave out lines 9 to 12.
§ Madam Deputy SpeakerWith this, it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 113, in page 46, line 14, at end insert—
'(1A) No financial provision order, other than an interim order, may be made under section 22A above before the end of the first six months of the period for reflection and consideration, unless—No. 120, in page 46, line 14, at end insert—
- (a) it is an order in the terms applied for to which the other party agrees; or
- (b) it takes effect, in accordance with subsection (1), before the making of a divorce order or separation order, and the court is satisfied—
- (i) that there are exceptional circumstances, and
- (ii) that it would be just and reasonable for the order to be made earlier.'.
`(1A) No financial provision order, other than an interim order, may be made under section 22A above before the end of the first three months of the period for reflection and consideration, unless—Government amendments Nos. 65 and 66.
- (a) it is an order in the terms applied for to which the other party agrees; or
- (b) it takes effect, in accordance with subsection (1), before the making of a divorce order or separation order, and the court is satisfied—
- (i) that there are exceptional circumstances, and
- (ii) that it would be just and reasonable for the order to be made earlier.'.
No. 114, in page 48, line 45, at end insert—
'(1 A) No property adjustment order may be made under section 23A above before the end of the first six months of the period for reflection and consideration, unless—No. 121, in page 48, line 45, at end insert—be made earlier.'.
- (a) it is an order in the terms applied for to which the other party agrees; or
- (b) it takes effect, in accordance with subsection (1), before the making of a divorce order or separation order, and the court is satisfied—
- (i) that there are exceptional circumstances, and
- (ii) that it would be just and reasonable for the order to
'(1A) No property adjustment order may be made under section 23A above before the end of the first three months of the period for reflection and consideration, unless—Government amendments Nos. 67 to 76 and 87 to 92.be made earlier.'.
- (a) it is an order in the terms applied for to which the other party agrees; or
- (b) it takes effect, in accordance with subsection (1), before the making of a divorce order or separation order, and the court is satisfied—
- (i) that there are exceptional circumstances, and
- (ii) that it would be just and reasonable for the order to
§ Mr. StreeterAmendments Nos. 64 to 76 make drafting changes and minor corrections to schedule 2 but make no policy changes, and I commend them to the House.
646 If my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) moves amendments Nos. 120 and 121, which relate to the making of three-month restrictions on the making of property and other orders, I can accept them. That restriction may be of some benefit to couples who want to reconcile from the time of attending the information session to the time that the court can make a contested order. There will generally be six months to seek a reconciliation before a contested order is made. Once the court has made an order, reconciliation is still facilitated by the power of the court to vary orders on reconciliation. The court also has power to vary all types of property adjustment orders, and lump sum orders, made before a divorce or separation order is made. I cannot accept amendments Nos. 113 and 114 and ask my hon. Friend not to move them.
Amendments Nos. 87, 91, 92, 88, 89 and 90 are technical and sensible, and I commend them to the House.
§ Mr. BrazierAmendments Nos. 120 and 121 would provide three months' extra reflection and consideration in certain circumstances before final financial and property orders can be made. That provision has nothing to do with the total time taken before a divorce is granted but everything to do with trying to save marriages that may still be saveable after the couple have begun the divorce process.
In cases of domestic violence, eviction orders would be totally unaffected. In the same way, where there is genuine financial need, interim financial orders will also be unaffected.
The amendments would assist in saving saveable marriages because once the family home is broken up in a property order or financial orders have been made, the couple in question are a long way down the road of a marriage break-up. The House has made it absolutely clear that it wants pause for thought in divorce and has voted for, in most cases, 18 months to achieve it. It would be strange if it were possible in all circumstances after just three months for couples to start the machinery that will effectively break up their marriage.
This modest pair of amendments provide for three additional months, making six months, before the final property or financial order can be negotiated—subject to a string of let-outs. The Conservative Family Campaign's legal advisers say that those let-outs will probably apply in the majority of cases. There will be a let-out in cases that are uncontested and in which the court rules that exceptional circumstances make that just and reasonable—and the courts are only too willing to allow exceptional circumstances. None the less, in the residue of cases where divorce is contested and there are no special circumstances, people will be required to reflect for six months before they set their decision in concrete. That can only be a good thing and in line with the wishes of the House—which voted for a much longer period for divorce. I urge the House to support both amendments, which would halt the machinery of divorce a little longer.
§ Mr. BoatengWe well understand what motivates the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) in tabling the amendments. In the real world, however, it is not possible for the parties to be held, as it were, frozen in suspended animation while the world goes on around them. That is not how it happens in the divorce process. As we have 647 consistently said, we need to intervene early by pathways to reconciliation. Once those pathways have been explored, there is no point in freezing the machinery any further. If reconciliation is not possible, in the children's interests, the impulse must be to move quickly to agreement in relation to property and to children.
Therefore, we will with regret, but absolute certainty vote against the amendments. They do not promote reconciliation or assist the process. On the contrary, they present yet another element of complexity that will create only uncertainty and do harm. We will oppose the amendments.
§ Mr. Brazierrose—
§ Madam Deputy SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman has already spoken.
§ Mr. BrazierWith the leave of the House,
§ Madam Deputy SpeakerI am sorry. I know that the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) was seeking to intervene, but, as the hon. Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng) had already sat down, the situation cannot arise.
§ Mr. StreeterWith the leave of the House, I have noted carefully what the hon. Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng) has said. He is wrong.
§ Mr. BrazierWill my hon. Friend give way?
§ Mr. StreeterOf course.
§ Mr. BrazierI am most grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing me to intervene. The hon. Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng) has effectively made a case for abridging the total divorce process. I ask the House to think what possible logic there is in having a total divorce process that takes 18 months, but, if people want, in setting it all in concrete in every case after three months.
§ Mr. StreeterMy hon. Friend makes a good point. The amendments are modest and sensible and I urge my colleagues to support them.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendment proposed: No. 120, in page 46, line 14, at end insert—
'(1A) No financial provision order, other than an interim order, may be made under section 22A above before the end of the first three months of the period for reflection and consideration, unless—648
- (a) it is an order in the terms applied for to which the other party agrees; or
- (b) it takes effect, in accordance with subsection (1), before the making of a divorce order or separation order, and the court is satisfied—
- (i) that there are exceptional circumstances, and
- (ii) that it would be just and reasonable for the order to be made earlier:.—[Mr. Brazier.]
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 169, Noes 223.
650| Division No. 149] | [11.25 pm |
| AYES | |
| Alexander, Richard | Hawkins, Nick |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Hawksley, Warren |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David |
| Alton, David | Hendry, Charles |
| Amess, David | Hill, Sir James (Southampton Test) |
| Arbuthnot, James | Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) |
| Atkins, Rt Hon Robert | Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) |
| Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset) | Hunter, Andrew |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Jackson, Robert (Wantage) |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Bates, Michael | Jessel, Toby |
| Bellingham, Henry | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Bendall, Vivian | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Jopling, Rt Hon Michael |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Knapman, Roger |
| Booth, Hartley | Kynoch, George (Kincardine) |
| Boswell, Tim | Lamont, Rt Hon Norman |
| Bowden, Sir Andrew | Leigh, Edward |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Lidington, David |
| Brazier, Julian | Lord, Michael |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Luff, Peter |
| Bruce, Ian (South Dorset) | Maclean, Rt Hon David |
| Burns, Simon | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Burt, Alistair | McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick |
| Butcher, John | Maftland, Lady Olga |
| Carrington, Matthew | Malone, Gerald |
| Chapman, Sir Sydney | Marlow, Tony |
| Clappison, James | Merchant, Piers |
| Coe, Sebastian | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Congdon, David | Monro, Rt Hon Sir Hector |
| Conway, Derek | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Nelson, Anthony |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Neubert, Sir Michael |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Day, Stephen | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Norris, Steve |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Paice, James |
| Dover, Den | Paisley, The Reverend Ian |
| Duncan, Alan | Patnick, Sir Irvine |
| Duncan Smith, Iain | Patten, Rt Hon John |
| Dunn, Bob | Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Durant, Sir Anthony | Pawsey, James |
| Dykes, Hugh | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Porter, Barry (Wirral S) |
| Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Evans, Roger (Monmouth) | Redwood, Rt Hon John |
| Evennett, David | Renton, Rt Hon Tim |
| Fabricant, Michael | Riddick, Graham |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Robathan, Andrew |
| Forsyth, Rt Hon Michael (Stirling) | Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn |
| Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) | Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) |
| Freeman, Rt Hon Roger | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Gallie, Phil | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| Garnier, Edward | Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) |
| Gill, Christopher | Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela |
| Gillan, Cheryl | Sackville, Tom |
| Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Sir Timothy |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Scott, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Gorman, Mrs Teresa | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Gorst, Sir John | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Shepherd, Sir Colin (Hereford) |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) | Sims, Sir Roger |
| Hague, Rt Hon William | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick) |
| Hargreaves, Andrew | Soames, Nicholas |
| Spencer, Sir Derek | Viggers, Peter |
| Sproat, Iain | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John | Walden, George |
| Stephen, Michael | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Stewart, Allan | Ward, John |
| Streeter, Gary | Waterson, Nigel |
| Sweeney, Walter | Watts, John |
| Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) | Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Whittingdale, John | |
| Thomason, Roy | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) | Wiggin, Sir Jerry |
| Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) | Wilkinson, John |
| Thornton, Sir Malcolm | Wood, Timothy |
| Townend, John (Bridlington) | Yeo, Tim |
| Tredinnick, David | |
| Trend, Michael | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Twinn, Dr Ian | Dr. Robert Spink and Mr. Michael Brown. |
| Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| NOES | |
| Ainger, Nick | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) |
| Allen, Graham | Fatchett, Derek |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Field, Frank (Birkenhead) |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Fishburn, Dudley |
| Ashton, Joe | Fisher, Mark |
| Barron, Kevin | Flynn, Paul |
| Batiste, Spencer | Forman, Nigel |
| Battle, John | Forth, Eric |
| Bayley, Hugh | Foster, Don (Bath) |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Foulkes, George |
| Bennett, Andrew F | Fyfe, Maria |
| Benton, Joe | Galbraith, Sam |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Galloway, George |
| Berry, Roger | Gapes, Mike |
| Boateng, Paul | Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Gerrard, Neil |
| Bradley, Keith | Godman, Dr Norman A |
| Brown, N. (N'c'tle Tyne E) | Godsiff, Roger |
| Burden, Richard | Golding, Mrs Llin |
| Butterfill, John | Graham, Thomas |
| Byers, Stephen | Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) |
| Caborn, Richard | Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) |
| Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) | Griffiths, Wn (Bridgend) |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Grocott, Bruce |
| Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) | Gunnell, John |
| Campbell-Savours, D N | Hain, Peter |
| Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery) | Hanson, David |
| Chidgey, David | Hardy, Peter |
| Chisholm, Malcolm | Harman, Ms Harriet |
| Churchill, Mr | Harvey, Nick |
| Clapham, Michael | Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy |
| Clark, Dr David (South Shields) | Hayes, Jerry |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif) | Heald, Oliver |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Heppell, John |
| Clelland, David | Hill, Keith (Streatham) |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Hinchliffe, David |
| Coffey, Ann | Hodge, Margaret |
| Connarty, Michael | Hoey, Kate |
| Corbett, Robin | Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Hood, Jimmy |
| Cousins, Jim | Hoon, Geoffrey |
| Cox, Tom | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Cummings, John | Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Howarth, George (Knowsley North) |
| Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John | Howells, Dr Kim (Pontypridd) |
| Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) | Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) |
| Dalyell, Tarn | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Davies, Chris (L'Boro & S'worth) | Hughes, Roy (Newport E) |
| Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Illsley, Eric |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l) | Ingram, Adam |
| Denham, John | Jack, Michael |
| Dewar, Donald | Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) |
| Donohoe, Brian H | Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) |
| Dowd, Jim | Jamieson, David |
| Jenkins, Brian (SE Staff) | Ottaway, Richard |
| Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) | Pickles, Eric |
| Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW) | Pickthall, Colin |
| Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) | Pike, Peter L |
| Jowell, Tessa | Pope, Greg |
| Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald | Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Keen, Alan | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Kennedy, Charles (Ross,C&S) | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Khabra, Piara S | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Kilfoyle, Peter | Radice, Giles |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Randall, Stuart |
| Knight, Rt Hon Greg (Derby N) | Rathbone, Tim |
| Knox, Sir David | Raynsford, Nick |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Reid, Dr John |
| Lester, Sir James (Broxtowe) | Rendel, David |
| Lewis, Terry | Roche, Mrs Barbara |
| Liddell, Mrs Helen | Rooker, Jeff |
| Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) | Sheerman, Barry |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Short, Clare |
| Lynne, Ms Liz | Skinner, Dennis |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| McCartney, Ian | Smith, Chris (Isl'tonS& F'sbury) |
| Macdonald, Calum | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| McFall, John | Soley, Clive |
| MacKay, Andrew | Spellar, John |
| McKelvey, William | Spring, Richard |
| Mackinlay, Andrew | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| McLeish, Henry | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| Maclennan, Robert | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Stevenson, George | |
| McNamara, Kevin | Stott, Roger |
| MacShane, Denis | Strang, Dr. Gavin |
| Madden, Max | Straw, Jack |
| Maddock, Diana | Sutcliffe, Gerry |
| Mahon, Alice | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Mandelson, Peter | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Marek, Dr John | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Marshall, David (Shettleston) | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Tipping, Paddy |
| Martin, Michael J (Springbum) | Touhig, Don |
| Martlew, Eric | Trickett, Jon |
| Maxton, John | Turner, Dennis |
| Meacher, Michael | Vaz, Keith |
| Michael, Alun | Wallace, James |
| Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) | Walley, Joan |
| Milburn, Alan | Wells, Bowen |
| Miller, Andrew | Whitney, Ray |
| Moonie, Dr Lewis | Wicks, Malcolm |
| Morgan, Rhodri | Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W) |
| Morley, Elliot | Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen) |
| Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) | Worthington, Tony |
| Mudie, George | Wright, Dr Tony |
| Mullin, Chris | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) | |
| O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Olner, Bill | Ms Janet Anderson and Mrs. Jane Kennedy. |
| Oppenheim, Phillip |
§ Question accordingly negatived.
§ Amendments made: No. 65, in page 46, line 18, leave out from 'consideration' to end of line 19 and insert
`is interrupted under section 7(8) of the 1996 Act.'.
§ No. 66, in page 46, line 34, at end insert—
'(5) In this section, "period for reflection and consideration" means the period fixed by section 7 of the 1996 Act." '.
§ No. 67, in page 48, line 48, leave out from `consideration' to end of line 49 and insert
`is interrupted under section 7(8) of the 1996 Act.'.
§ No. 68, in page 49, line 10, leave out '22A' and insert '23A'.
§ No. 69, in page 49, line 15, at end insert—
651`(5) In this section, "period for reflection and consideration" means the period fixed by section 7 of the 1996 Act." '.
§ No. 70, in page 49, line 43, after `(b)' insert
`above, unless sub-paragraph (ia) below applies,'.
§ No. 71, in page 49, line 44, at end insert—
'(ia) where the order is made by virtue of section 22A(2)(b) above and the application for the divorce order was made following cancellation of an order preventing divorce under section 10 of the 1996 Act, than the date of the making of that application;'.
§ No. 72, in page 49, line 45, leave out 'or (d)' and insert `above'.
§ No. 73, in page 50, line 16, after 'above' insert
', except where paragraph (aa) below applies,'.
§ No. 74, in page 50, line 17, at end insert—
`(aa) in the case of an order made by virtue of section 22A(2)(b) above where the application for the divorce order was made following cancellation of an order preventing divorce under section 10 of the 1996 Act, the date of the making of that application;'.
§ No. 75, in page 50, line 18, leave out 'such'.
§ No. 76, in page 50, line 18, leave out 'or (d)'.—[Mr. Streeter.]