§
Amendment proposed: No. 1, in page 9, line 39, at end insert—
'6(A) The arrangements must provide that when a scheme has more than 850 members, and pensioner members comprise a majority, one additional trustee shall be nominated, who shall be a pensioner member of that scheme.'.—[Mr. Ingram.]
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 252, Noes 282.
246| Division No. 194] | [10.00 pm |
| AYES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) |
| Adams, Mrs Irene | Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l) |
| Ainger, Nick | Denham, John |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Dewar, Donald |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Dixon, Don |
| Ashton, Joe | Dobson, Frank |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Donohoe, Brian H |
| Barnes, Harry | Dowd, Jim |
| Barron, Kevin | Dunnachie, Jimmy |
| Battle, John | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth |
| Bayley, Hugh | Eagle, Ms Angela |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Eastham, Ken |
| Beggs, Roy | Etherington, Bill |
| Bell, Stuart | Evans, John (St Helens N) |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Ewing, Mrs Margaret |
| Bennett, Andrew F | Fatchett, Derek |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Faulds, Andrew |
| Berry, Roger | Field, Frank (Birkenhead) |
| Betts, Clive | Flynn, Paul |
| Blunkett, David | Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim) |
| Boateng, Paul | Foster, Rt Hon Derek |
| Bowden, Sir Andrew | Foster, Don (Bath) |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Foulkes, George |
| Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E) | Fraser, John |
| Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) | Fyfe, Maria |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Galloway, George |
| Burden, Richard | Garrett, John |
| Byers, Stephen | Gerrard, Neil |
| Caborn, Richard | Godman, Dr Norman A |
| Callaghan, Jirn | Godsiff, Roger |
| Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) | Golding, Mrs Llin |
| Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) | Gordon, Mildred |
| Campbell-Savours, D N | Graham, Thomas |
| Cann, Jamie | Grant, Bemie (Tottenham) |
| Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery) | Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) |
| Chidgey, David | Grocott, Bruce |
| Chisholm, Malcolm | Gunnell, John |
| Church, Judith | Hain, Peter |
| Clapham, Michael | Hall, Mike |
| Clark, Dr David (South Shields) | Harman, Ms Harriet |
| Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) | Harvey, Nick |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy |
| Clelland, David | Henderson, Doug |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Hill, Keith (Streatham) |
| Coffey, Ann | Hinchliffe, David |
| Cohen, Harry | Hodge, Margaret |
| Connarty, Michael | Hoey, Kate |
| Corbett, Robin | Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Home Robertson, John |
| Corston, Jean | Hood, Jimmy |
| Cousins, Jim | Hoon, Geoffrey |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Howarth, George (Knowsley North) |
| Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) | Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) |
| Cunningham, Roseanna | Hoyle, Doug |
| Dalyell, Tarn | Hughes, Kevin (DoncasterN) |
| Darling, Alistair | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Davidson, Ian | Hughes, Roy (Newport E) |
| Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral) | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Hutton, John |
| Illsley, Eric | Pickthall, Colin |
| Ingram, Adam | Pike, Peter L |
| Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) | Pope, Greg |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Jamieson, David | Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Janner, Greville | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Johnston, Sir Russell | Prescott, Rt Hon John |
| Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Môn) | Purchase, Ken |
| Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) | Radice, Giles |
| Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW) | Randall, Stuart |
| Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) | Raynsford, Nick |
| Jowell, Tessa | Reid, Dr John |
| Keen, Alan | Rendel, David |
| Kennedy, Jane (L'pool Br'dg'n) | Robertson, George (Hamilton) |
| Khabra, Piara S | Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW) |
| Kilfovle, Peter | Roche, Mrs Barbara |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Rogers, Allan |
| Lestor, Joan (Eccles) | Rooker, Jeff |
| Lewis, Terry | Rooney, Terry |
| Liddell, Mrs Helen | Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) |
| Litherland, Robert | Ross, William (E Londonderry) |
| Livingstone, Ken | Ruddock, Joan |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) | Salmond, Alex |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Sedgemore, Brlan |
| Lynne, Ms Liz | Sheerman, Barry |
| McAllion, John | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Short, Clare |
| Macdonald, Calum | Simpson, Alan |
| McFall, John | Skinner, Dennis |
| McKelvey, William | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Mackinlay, Andrew | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| McLeish, Henry | Smyth, The Reverend Martin |
| Maclennan, Robert | Spearing, Nigel |
| McMaster, Gordon | Spellar, John |
| McNamara, Kevin | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| MacShane, Denis | Steel, Rt Hon Sir David |
| McWilliam, John | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Madden, Max | Stevenson, George |
| Mandelson, Peter | Straw, Jack |
| Marek, Dr John | Sutcliffe, Gerry |
| Marshall, David (Shettleston) | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Martin, Michael J (Springburn) | Timms, Stephen |
| Martlew, Eric | Tipping, Paddy |
| Maxton, John | Touhig, Don |
| Meacher, Michael | Turner, Dennis |
| Meale, Alan | Tyler, Paul |
| Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) | Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold |
| Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute) | Wallace, James |
| Milburn, Alan | Walley, Joan |
| Miller, Andrew | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Morgan, Rhodri | Watson, Mike |
| Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wy'nshawe) | Welsh, Andrew |
| Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) | Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W) |
| Mowlam, Marjorie | Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen) |
| Mudie, George | Wilson, Brian |
| Mullin, Chris | Winnick, David |
| Murphy, Paul | Wise, Audrey |
| Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon | Worthington, Tony |
| O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire) | Wray, Jimmy |
| O'Brien, William (Normanton) | Wright, Dr Tony |
| Olner, Bill | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| O'Neill, Martin | |
| Orme, Rt Hon Stanley | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Parry, Robert | Mr. John Cummings and Mr. Robert Ainsworth. |
| Pearson, Ian |
| NOES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Ancram, Michael |
| Aitken, Rt Hon Jonathan | Arbuthnot, James |
| Alexander, Richard | Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Ashby, David |
| Amess, David | Atkins, Rt Hon Robert |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Forman, Nigel |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Forsyth, Rt Hon Michael (Stirling) |
| Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset) | Forth, Eric |
| Baldry, Tony | Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) |
| Bates, Michael | Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley) |
| Batiste, Spencer | Freeman, Rt Hon Roger |
| Bellingham, Henry | French, Douglas |
| Bendall, Vivian | Gale, Roger |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Gallie, Phil |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Gardiner, Sir George |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan |
| Booth, Hartley | Garnier, Edward |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Gillan, Cheryl |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles |
| Bowis, John | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Gorst, Sir John |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Grant, Sir A (SW Cambs) |
| Brazier, Julian | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Bright, Sir Graham | Greenway, John (Ryedale) |
| Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) |
| Browning, Mrs Angela | Hague, William |
| Bruce, Ian (Dorset) | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Burns, Simon | Hanley, Rt Hon Jeremy |
| Burt, Alistair | Hannam, Sir John |
| Butcher, John | Hargreaves, Andrew |
| Butler, Peter | Haselhurst, Sir Alan |
| Butterfill, John | Hawkins, Nick |
| Carlisle, John (Luton North) | Hawksley, Warren |
| Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln) | Hayes, Jerry |
| Carrington, Matthew | Heald, Oliver |
| Carttiss, Michael | Heathcoat-Amory, David |
| Cash, William | Hendry, Charles |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Hicks, Robert |
| Churchill, Mr | Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence |
| Clappison, James | Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Horam, John |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif) | Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey | Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) |
| Coe, Sebastian | Howell, Sir Ralph (N Norfolk) |
| Colvin, Michael | Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) |
| Conway, Derek | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) | Hunter, Andrew |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Cormack, Sir Patrick | Jack, Michael |
| Couchman, James | Jackson, Robert (Wantage) |
| Cran, James | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Jessel, Toby |
| Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Davies, Quentin (Stamford) | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr) |
| Day, Stephen | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | King, Rt Hon Tom |
| Devlin, Tim | Kirkhope, Timothy |
| Dicks, Terry | Knapman, Roger |
| Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen | Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Knight, Greg (Derby N) |
| Dover, Den | Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'stn) |
| Duncan, Alan | Knox, Sir David |
| Duncan-Smith, Iain | Kynoch, George (Kincardine) |
| Dunn, Bob | Lait, Mrs Jacqui |
| Durant, Sir Anthony | Lamont, Rt Hon Norman |
| Dykes, Hugh | Lang, Rt Hon Ian |
| Eggar, Rt Hon Tim | Lawrence, Sir Ivan |
| Elletson, Harold | Legg, Barry |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) | Leigh, Edward |
| Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) | Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark |
| Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) | Lidington, David |
| Evans, Roger (Monmouth) | Lightbown, David |
| Evennett, David | Lilley, Rt Hon Peter |
| Faber, David | Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) |
| Fabricant, Michael | Lord, Michael |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Luff, Peter |
| Held, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Fishburn, Dudley | MacGregor, Rt Hon John |
| MacKay, Andrew | Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) |
| Maclean, Rt Hon David | Shepherd, Richard |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Shersby, Sir Michael |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick | Sims, Roger |
| Madel, Sir David | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Maitland, Lady Olga | Soames, Nicholas |
| Malone, Gerald | Spencer, Sir Derek |
| Mans, Keith | Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset) |
| Marland, Paul | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Marlow, Tony | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Spring, Richard |
| Martin, David (Portsmouth S) | Sproat, Iain |
| Mates, Michael | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick | Stephen, Michael |
| Merchant, Piers | Stewart, Alan |
| Mills, Iain | Streeter, Gary |
| Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) | Sumberg, David |
| Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants) | Sweeney, Walter |
| Moate, Sir Roger | Sykes, John |
| Monro, Sir Hector | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Moss, Malcolm | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Nelson, Anthony | Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) |
| Neubert, Sir Michael | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Newton, Rt Hon Tony | Thomason, Roy |
| Nicholson, David (Taunton) | Thompson, Sir Donald (Ce'r V) |
| Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Norris, Steve | Thornton, Sir Malcolm |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley | Thurnham, Peter |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Ottaway, Richard | Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th) |
| Page, Richard | Tracey, Richard |
| Paice, James | Tredinnick, David |
| Patnick, Sir Irvine | Trend, Michael |
| Patten, Rt Hon John | Trotter, Neville |
| Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Pawsey, James | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Viggers, Peter |
| Pickles, Eric | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Porter, Barry (Wirral S) | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Waller, Gary |
| Portilto, Rt Hon Michael | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Powell, William (Corby) | Waterson, Nigel |
| Rathbone, Tim | Watts, John |
| Redwood, Rt Hon John | Wells, Bowen |
| Renton, Rt Hon Tim | Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Richards, Rod | Whitney, Ray |
| Riddick, Graham | Whittingdale, John |
| Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Robathan, Andrew | Wiggin, Sir Jerry |
| Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn | Wilkinson, John |
| Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) | Willetts, David |
| Robinson, Mark (Somerton) | Wilshire, David |
| Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld) |
| Rumbold, Fit Hon Dame Angela | Yeo, Tim |
| Sackville, Tom | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Sainsbury, Rt Hon Sir Timothy | |
| Shaw, David (Dover) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) | Mr. Sydney Chapman and Mr. Timothy Wood. |
| Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
§ Question accordingly negatived.
§ It being after The o' clock, further cosideration of the bill stood adjoured.
§
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No.14 (Exempted business).
That, at this day's sitting, the Pensions Bill [Lords] may be proceeded with, though opposed, until any hour.—[Mr. Kirkhope.]
§ Question agreed to.
247§ Mr. Brian Wilson (Cunninghame, North)On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sure that you are aware, as is the House, of the rather sorry background to the case of BMARC and arms to Iran. In particular, I refer to the fact that, in both written and oral parliamentary statements during that time, Ministers, as they have acknowledged, misled the House—inadvertently, no doubt—because of the non-availability of papers that were held by Government Departments.
We are also aware that those papers have now surfaced, and there is no longer any doubt about their importance. We understand that some examination, several years belatedly, is being made of them. I am sure that you would agree, Madam Deputy Speaker, that, if information were to come out of those papers that had further implications for oral and written statements made to the House by Ministers, the House must be the first to know the contents of those papers.
In particular, if any information which comes out of the BMARC papers has any implications for the position of the Chief Secretary to the Treasury or any other Minister, the House must be the first to know about it. I ask you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to safeguard the House's interests in that respect.
§ Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Janet Fookes)The hon. Gentleman and the House will understand that that is not a matter over which the Chair has any jurisdiction. The hon. Gentleman must find other ways of pursuing the issue.