§ 57. Major COLFOXasked the President of the Board of Education whether, with reference to the contributory scheme for the superannuation of school teachers, the amount of the pension payable will be calculated on the amount of the salary earned or on the amount of the salary less the 5 per cent, contribution?
§ Mr. FISHERSalary taken into account for the calculation of pension will be salary unreduced by the amount of contribution. I would call the hon. and gallant Member's attention to Clause 4 of the Bill.
§ 58. Major COLFOXasked the President of the Board of Education, with reference to the contributory scheme for superannuation of school teachers, whether, in the event of a teacher who has contributed to the scheme dying or leaving his employment before he is eligible for benefit, his contribution will be returnable to him or his estate?
§ Mr. FISHERI would refer the hon. and gallant Member to Clause 2 of the Bill.
§ Sir D. MACLEAN(by Private Notice) asked the President of the Board of Education whether it is intended to proceed with the Teachers' Superannuation Bill to-morrow, in view of the fact that the Committee thereupon which was proposed by the Government has not yet reported?
§ Mr. FISHERThe answer is in the affirmative.
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSDoes not this create difficulty in the minds of hon. Members in knowing how to vote, seeing that the Government have appointed a Committee to investigate the question, and that it is desirable that the Committee should present its Report before hon. Members are called on to vote?
§ Mr. FISHERThe Government are proposing to give effect to the recommendations of the Committee on National Expenditure. That recommendation was to the effect that there should be an inquiry into the whole question of teachers' superannuation, and that pending the results of that inquiry the contribution of 5 per cent. in respect of pensions should be levied on teachers. It is for the pur- 39 pose of giving effect to that recommendation that the Government are introducing the Bill.
§ Sir D. MACLEANDoes not the right hon. Gentleman realise how very difficult it is for the House to discuss the Second Reading of this Measure when, apart altogether from the merits, the method by which this superannuation is to be carried out, and which is a matter of vital importance on the Second Reading, is the subject of inquiry?
Sir F. HALLIs it the intention of the Government before this Committee reports that the teachers should be, debited with 5 per cent, towards superannuation?
Lieut.-Colonel GUINNESSIs it proposed to apply this 5 per cent, collection in those areas where teachers are not on the Burnham scales?
§ Mr. SPEAKERHon. Members must not anticipate the Debate which is to take place to-morrow.
§ Colonel GRETTONCan the right hon. Gentleman state whether the inquiry is likely to be a long one or whether the Committee has been instructed to report very rapidly?
§ Mr. FISHERThe matter of teachers' superannuation is a matter of very considerable complication, but I should hope, notwithstanding that, we shall have a Report before very long.
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSWill the right hon. Gentleman agree that if the Second Reading is taken to-morrow, the Bill will not be further proceeded with until after the Committee has reported?
§ Mr. FISHERThe object of this Measure is to raise a certain sum of money, and the Estimates of the Board of Education were presented upon the basis that there would be an Appropriation-in-Aid of the amount which is to be raised by this contribution. Unless this contribution is made, we shall have to come to the House for a Supplementary Estimate, and it is in that view that the Government propose to proceed with the Bill.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODWould not the whole difficulty be solved if, after the Bill is read a Second time to-morrow, it is remitted to a Select Committee, as pro- 40 posed in the notice on the Paper, in order that the question might be thrashed out and solved on sound lines?