§ Section twenty-one of the Finance Act, 1920 (which provides for a deduction from assessable income in respect of children), shall have effect as if for the words "thirty-six pounds" and "twenty-seven pounds" there were substituted, respectively, the words "forty-five pounds" and "thirty pounds."—[Mr. Rose.]
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
§ Mr. ROSEI beg to move "That the Clause be read a Second time."
This proposal needs very little explanation. My proposal is to substitute an allowance of £45 for £36 in the first case and £30 for £27 in the second case in Section 21 of the Finance Act, 1920. This is a proposal which will affect the poorer class of Income Tax payers, and it is on their behalf that this new Clause is being moved. The whole matter has been thrashed out here before and there is no need to discuss it any further now.
§ Mr. HAYDAYI rise to support this new Clause. [HON. MEMBERS: "What is it?"] It is quite natural that one with a knowledge of the infliction which is imposed upon those responsible for the rearing of children should support this proposal. I certainly feel that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will have great sympathy for this proposal. I certainly feel that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will have great sympathy with those who are seeking relief under this Clause, the assumption being that the relief is given on an estimate as to the cost of the upkeep and maintenance of the child or children for whom the relief is obtained during the year. When one considers that it costs considerably more than the allowance under the present system, I feel that whatever may be
§ the difficulties of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the difficulties of those who have to make this provision, unless they get the relief we suggest, are manifestly much greater. The amount of £27 per annum for the second child and onwards, as relief, is utterly inadequate. It may be that hon. Members are looking upon me as a special pleader in this instance on behalf of those who, perhaps, are called upon to suffer to a much greater extent; but I feel after the approval they have expressed of my sentiments we may hope that when the Clause goes to a Division—should that be necessary—those who have so spontaneously endorsed my appeal and are evidently now able to grip the substance of my argument, will see that the Clause is carried, even should the Chancellor of the Exchequer refuse to accept it.
§ Sir R. HORNEMy hon. Friend has been talking of intricate matters, with which I am very sadly unacquainted. He claimed my sympathy, but what I would beg to tender to him is my hearty admiration. It is quite true that these often romantic matters, when it comes to the question of the Exchequer, begin to sound in terms of pounds, shillings and pence, and the Amendment of which it is sought to obtain the approval of the Committee to-night would cost altogether £1,200,000. That is on the assumption that the average family does not amount to more than three. I hope my hon. Friend will not think me very hard-hearted if I am not able to follow him with the same enthusiasm that he has displayed.
§ Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 56; Noes, 283.
1989| Division No. 180.] | AYES. | [11.20 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. William | Hartshorn, Vernon | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Banton, George | Hayward, Evan | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
| Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Hills, Major John Waller | Royce, William Stapleton |
| Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) | Hirst, G. H. | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Barton, Sir William (Oldham) | Hogge, James Myles | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Holmes, J. Stanley | Swan, J. E. |
| Bramsdon, Sir Thomas | Irving, Dan | Thomas, Brig.-Gen. Sir O. (Anglesey) |
| Briant, Frank | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West) |
| Bromfield, William | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince) |
| Cairns, John | Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M | Ward, Col. J. (Stoke upon Trent) |
| Carter, W. (Nottingham, Mansfield) | Lawson, John James | Watts-Morgan, Lieut.-Col. D. |
| Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Lunn, William | White, Charles F. (Derby, Western) |
| Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) | Maclean, Rt. Hn. Sir D. (Midlothian) | Wignall, James |
| Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Mosley, Oswald | Williams, Col. P. (Middlesbrough, E.) |
| Finney, Samuel | Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) | Wintringham, Margaret |
| Foot, Isaac | Myers, Thomas | Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.) |
| Gillis, William | Naylor, Thomas Ellis | |
| Grundy, T. W. | Newbould, Alfred Ernest | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) | O'Grady, Captain James | Mr. Rose and Mr. Hayday. |
| Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) | Raffan, Peter Wilson | |
| NOES. | ||
| Adkins, Sir William Ryland Dent | Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred Moritz |
| Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte | France, Gerald Ashburner | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. |
| Ainsworth, Captain Charles | Fraser, Major Sir Keith | Morden, Col. W. Grant |
| Allen, Lieut.-Col. Sir William James | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Moreing, Captain Algernon H. |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Ganzoni, Sir John | Morrison, Hugh |
| Armstrong, Henry Bruce | Gee, Captain Robert | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. |
| Ashley, Colonel Wilfrid W. | George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd | Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert |
| Astor, Viscountess | Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham | Murchison, C. K. |
| Atkey, A. R. | Gilbert, James Daniel | Murray, Hon. A. C. (Aberdeen) |
| Baird, Sir John Lawrence | Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel Sir John | Murray, Rt. Hon. C. D. (Edinburgh) |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Gould, James C. | Murray, John (Leeds, West) |
| Banbury, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G. | Goulding, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward A. | Neal, Arthur |
| Barker, Major Robert H. | Gray, Major Ernest (Accrington) | Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) |
| Barlow, Sir Montague | Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Barnett, Major Richard W. | Greene, Lt.-Col, Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) | Newson, Sir Percy Wilson |
| Barnston, Major Harry | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. Sir Hamar | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) |
| Barrand, A. R. | Greig, Colonel Sir James William | Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J. (Westminster) |
| Barrie, Sir Charles Coupar (Banff) | Grenfell Edward Charles | Nicholson, Reginald (Doncaster) |
| Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) | Gretton, Colonel John | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Bellairs, Commander Canyon W. | Gritten, W. G. Howard | Nield, Sir Herbert |
| Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. Frederick E. | Norman, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Henry |
| Bennett, Sir Thomas Jewell | Guthrie, Thomas Maule | Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Gwynne, Rupert S. | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William |
| Birchall, J. Dearman | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Palmer, Major Godfrey Mark |
| Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) | Hall, Lieut.-Col Sir F. (Dulwich) | Palmer, Brigadier-General G. L. |
| Blake, Sir Francis Douglas | Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Llv'p'l,W. D'by) | Parker, James |
| Blane, T. A. | Hamilton, Sir George C. | Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry |
| Berwick, Major G. O. | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Pease, Rt. Hon. Herbert Pike |
| Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- | Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) | Peel, Col. Hon. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.) |
| Bowyer, Captain G. W. E. | Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Brassey, H. L. C. | Haslam, Lewis | Philipps, Gen. Sir I. (Southampton) |
| Breese, Major Charles E. | Henderson, Lt.-Col. V. L. (Tradeston) | Pickering, Colonel Emil W. |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Pinkham, Lieut.-Colonel Charles |
| Briggs, Harold | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Pollock, Rt. Hon. Sir Ernest Murray |
| Broad, Thomas Tucker | Hinds, John | Polson, Sir Thomas A. |
| Brotherton, Colonel Sir Edward A. | Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. Clifton (Newbury) | Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy | Pratt, John William |
| Bruton, Sir James | Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard | Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. |
| Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. | Hood, Sir Joseph | Purchase, H. G. |
| Burdon, Colonel Rowland | Hope, Sir H. (Stirling & Cl'ckm'nn, W.) | Rae, Sir Henry N. |
| Burgoyne, Lt.-Col. Sir Alan Hughes | Hope, Lt.-Col. Sir J. A. (Midlothian) | Remer, J. R. |
| Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) | Hope, J. D. (Berwick & Haddington) | Remnant, Sir James |
| Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. | Hopkins, John W. W. | Renwick, Sir George |
| Carr, W. Theodore | Horne, Edgar (Surrey, Gulldford) | Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend) |
| Casey, T. W. | Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) | Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey) |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Howard, Major S. G. | Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich) |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster) | Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford) |
| Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood) | Hurd, Percy A. | Roberts, Sir S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill | Inskip, Thomas Walker H. | Robinson, S. (Brecon and Radnor) |
| Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford) |
| Clough, Sir Robert | Jameson, John Gordon | Roundell, Colonel R. F. |
| Coats, Sir Stuart | Jephcott, A. R. | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. | Johnstone, Joseph | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert Arthur |
| Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale | Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Llanelly) | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. |
| Cope, Major William | Joynson-Hicks, Sir William | Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) |
| Cory, Sir C. J. (Cornwall, St. Ives) | Kellaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George | Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Kidd, James | Seddon, J. A. |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Seely, Major-General Rt. Hon. John |
| Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Shaw, Hon. Alex. (Kilmarnock) |
| Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Shaw, William T. (Forfar) |
| Davies, David (Montgomery) | Larmor, Sir Joseph | Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.) |
| Davies, Sir David Sanders (Denbigh) | Law, Alfred J. (Rochdale) | Simm, M. T. |
| Davies, Thomas (Cirencester) | Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales) | Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South) |
| Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) | Lindsay, William Arthur | Smith, Sir Harold (Warrington) |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Lloyd, George Butler | Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander |
| Dewhurst, Lieut-Commander Harry | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) | Stanley, Major Hon. G. (Preston) |
| Doyle, N. Grattan | Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) | Stanton, Charles Butt |
| Du Pre, Colonel William Baring | Lorden, John William | Starkey, Captain John Ralph |
| Edgar, Clifford B. | Lort-Williams, J. | Steel, Major S. Strang |
| Edge, Captain Sir William | Lowther, Major C. (Cumberland, N.) | Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K. |
| Ednam, Viscount | Lyle, C. E. Leonard | Stewart, Gershom |
| Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | McLaren, Hon. H. D. (Leicester) | Strauss, Edward Anthony |
| Evans, Ernest | McLaren, Robert (Lanark, Northern) | Sturrock, J. Leng |
| Eyres-Monsell, Com. Bolton M. | M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Falcon, Captain Michael | Macnaghten, Sir Malcolm | Sugden, W. H. |
| Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) | Surtees, Brigadier-General H. C. |
| Fell, Sir Arthur | Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. | Sutherland, Sir William |
| Flides, Henry | Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) | Sykes, Sir Charles (Huddersfield) |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L. | Manville, Edward | Taylor, J. |
| Ford, Patrick Johnston | Marriott, John Arthur Ransome | Thomas, Sir Robert J. (Wrexham) |
| Foreman, Sir Henry | Martin, A. E. | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
| Forestier-Walker, L. | Matthews, David | Thomson, Sir W. Mitchell- (Maryhill) |
| Forrest, Walter | Mitchell, Sir William Lane | Thorpe, Captain John Henry |
| Townley, Maximilian G. | Weston, Colonel John Wakefield | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Tryon, Major George Clement | Wheler, Col. Granville C. H. | Wood, Hon. Edward F L. (Ripon) |
| Turton, Edmund Russborough | White, Col. G. D. (Southport) | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Vickers, Douglas | Willey, Lieut.-Colonel F. V. | Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde) |
| Wallace, J. | Williams, C. (Tavistock) | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir John Tudor | Willoughby, Lieut.-Col. Hon. Claud | Yeo, Sir Alfred William |
| Walton, J. (York, W. R., Don Valley) | Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir M. (Bethnal Gn.) | Young, Sir Frederick W. (Swindon) |
| Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull) | Wilson, Col. M. J. (Richmond) | Younger, Sir George |
| Waring, Major Walter | Windsor, Viscount | |
| Warner, Sir T. Courtenay T. | Winterton, Earl | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Watson, Captain John Bertrand | Wise, Frederick | Colonel Leslie Wilson and Mr. |
| McCurdy. |