§
Section 4 of the Finance Act, 1918 (which provides for the reduction and allowance of duty in respect of spirits used in medical preparations or for scientific purposes),shall apply to the duties on spirits
1114
imposed by this Act as it applies to duties on spirits imposed by that Act as though it were herein set out and expressly made applicable thereto, with the substitution for the sums specified in that Section as the amount of reduction of duty or repayment of duty, of such sums as will reduce the amount of duty payable under this Act to the amount of duty which was payable immediately before the increase of duties on spirits provided for by the Finance Act. 1918.
§ Mr. LEONARD LYLEI beg to move, after the word "shall," to insert the words "after making similar provision in respect of spirits used in hospitals on prescription."
In moving this Amendment, in contrast with certain hon. Members who have spoken previously, I will try and make my remarks as short as possible instead of making them as long as possible. The object of the Amendment is to save the voluntary hospitals from having to pay this very big duty on spirits which are used purely as medicines in hospitals. During the War the military hospitals were allowed to get spirits free of duty, and all we ask for here is merely that the voluntary hospitals be allowed to continue that principle.
Colonel BURNI beg to support the Amendment. I think everybody here knows the position of the hospitals at the present time, and this is a very small concession to the hospitals.
§ Mr. KILEYI desire to support the proposal on the ground that any assistance we can give to the hospitals, especially those in London which are passing through trying times, it is only our duty to do. I should like to call the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to what exists at the present time. If the spirit is mixed with drugs and is bought from a drug dealer, then the duty is partially remitted, but if the spirit is mixed with water instead of with drugs, then the present duty has to be paid. I am sure it is not the intention of the right hon. Gentleman to penalise the hospitals, or to induce them to mix the spirit with other substances to evade the duty During the War these hospitals received military patients, and therefore all the spirits necessary for the patients were supplied duty free. So that we are not asking for some new principle to be established, but only for a continuance of the practice of the past. I do 1115 think in this very small matter the right hon. Gentleman might make a small concession which would be much appreciated by the hospitals.
§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Mr. Baldwin)I am not surprised that this Amendment has been moved, and it is quite true that, in some ways, it is a small matter; but in cases of duties, such as the duty on spirits and the duty on wine, where they have now got to so high a point, we have to take the greatest possible care in not leaving open any holes by which evasion of the duty is possible. I would remind the Committee that we have met the case of the hospitals to a considerable degree in past Finance Bills, and we continue the relief in this by allowing them spirits at the pre-War rate where spirits are used in medicinal preparations; but when you come to allow the enormous difference there is between the pre-War duties on potable spirits which, I take it, is what is meant by this Amendment, you are opening a door that might be difficult to close. I would remind the Committee that statutory grants are given by the Ministry of Health to certain hospitals in relief of the duty on alcohol used in connection with certain medicinal preparations, but it Us always been ruled administratively that this relief is not to be given in the case of potable spirits. If such a concession were made, the Board of Customs would be entirely in the hands of the staffs of hospitals throughout the Kingdom, and it would be a very great responsibility to throw on them that spirit was only administered in cases where a prescription was made for it. I say nothing of the possibility of that prescription being made more frequently. But the spirits would be administered in small quantities. A bottle would be bought relieved from the major part of the tax. It would be opened for the purpose of use, and there is very great difficulty, as hon. Members know, in preserving the contents of a bottle that has once been opened.
§ Sir J. NORTON-GRIFFITHSI have had a bottle open for months, and it is in the same condition.
§ Mr. BALDWINA similar concession is being asked for with regard to wine at a later stage of this Bill, and there you 1116 have exactly the same administrative difficulty. A bottle of champagne, for example, might be bought at a very much reduced duty, and opened, and it would be impossible to maintain any satisfactory check from the revenue point of view in cases of this kind. For these reasons, I regret that we cannot possibly accept these Amendments, and I hope very much that my hon. Friend, having ventilated this subject, and being assured, much to our regret, that we are not able to meet it, will not press the matter further.
Dr. MURRAYI am sorry to hear the decision to which the Secretary to the Treasury has come, because I think the Amendment is one which has the support of this Committee, and ought to have been accepted by the Government. I do not think there is much in the suggestions of the right hon. Gentleman. In all well-regulated hospitals the quantity of spirits which a patient gets is registered in a book, and I do not think it would add much to the expense of the Excise Department if these books were occasionally examined, and, if a leakage such as the right hon. Gentleman has suggested has taken place, it could be easily detected, and the hospital found guilty could be punished. When the right hon. Gentleman remembers that it is only doctors and nurses who have access to the spirits, I think he might feel quite sure that the days of Sairey Gamp are over. I think brandy is looked after more carefully nowadays, and I think the suggestion that it would he open to abuse is not sufficient. In view of the difficulties in which hospitals find themselves, and that the account for stimulants is now a very serious item in hospitals, the Government would be doing a very great service to the cause of the hospitals, and not losing much revenue, if they accepted this Amendment.
Mr. PRESTONI have the honour to represent a constituency in which is situated the largest hospital in London. It is going through very hard times, and I rise to support the Amendment, and very much regret that the Government is not able to meet it.
§ Question put, "That those words be t here inserted."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 61; Noes, 195.
1111| Division No. 180.] | AYES | [7.20 p.m. |
| Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. | Breese, Major Charles E. | Cooper, Sir Richard Ashmole |
| Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte | Bridgeman, William Clive | Coote, William (Tyrone, South) |
| Allen, Lieut.-Colonel William James | Briggs, Harold | Courthope, Major George L. |
| Bagley, Captain E. Ashton | Brown, Captain D. C. | Craig, Colonel Sir J. (Down, Mid) |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Bruton, Sir James | Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Buchanan, Lieut.-Colonel A. L. H. | Croft, Brigadier-General Henry Page |
| Balfour, Sir R. (Glasgow, Partick) | Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. | Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) |
| Banbury, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G. | Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Dawes, Commander |
| Banner, Sir John S. Harmood- | Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) | Dennis, J. W. (Birmingham, Deritend) |
| Barnes Rt. Hon. G. (Glas., Gorbals) | Butcher, Sir John George | Denniss, Edmund R. B. (Oldham) |
| Barnston, Major Harry | Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. | Dockrell, Sir Maurice |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Carter, R. A. D. (Man., Withington) | Doyle, N. Grattan |
| Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) | Casey, T. W. | Edge, Captain William |
| Benn, Capt. Sir I. H., Bart. (Gr'nw'h) | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Evelyn (Birm., Aston) | Edwards, Major J. (Aberavon) |
| Bennett, Thomas Jewell | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord R. (Hitchin) | Elveden, Viscount |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Chadwick, Sir Robert | Eyres-Monsell, Commander B. M. |
| Bigland, Alfred | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Birm., W.) | Falcon, Captain Michael |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood) | Falle, Major Sir Bertram G. |
| Bird, Sir A. (Wolverhampton, West) | Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill | Farquharson, Major A. C. |
| Blades, Capt. Sir George Rowland | Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. | Fell, Sir Arthur |
| Blair, Reginald | Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender | Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L. |
| Blane, T. A. | Clough, Robert | FitzRoy, Captain Hon. E. A. |
| Boles, Lieut.-Colonel D. F. | Coats, Sir Stuart | Flannery, Sir James Fortescue |
| Borwick, Major G. O. | Cobb, Sir Cyril | Foreman, Henry |
| Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith | Cohen, Major J. Brunel | Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot |
| Bowles, Colonel H. F. | Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale | Fraser, Major Sir Keith |
| Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Knight, Major E. A. (Kidderminster) | Roundell, Colonel R. F. |
| Ganzoni, Captain Francis John C. | Knights, Capt. H. N. (C'berwell, N.) | Royds, Lieut.-Colonel Edmund |
| Gardiner, James | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Rutherford, Colonel Sir J. (Darwen) |
| Geddes, Rt. Hon. Sir E. (Camb'dge) | Law, Alfred J. (Rochdale) | Rutherford, Sir W. W. (Edge Hill) |
| Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel John | Law, Rt. Hon. A. B. (Glasgow, C.) | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Goff, Sir R. Park | Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales) | Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Norwood) |
| Gould, James C. | Lloyd-Greame, Major Sir P. | Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert A. |
| Grant, James A. | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) | Scott, Sir Samuel (St. Marylebone) |
| Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) | Locker-Lampoon, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) | Shaw, William T. (Forfar) |
| Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) | Lonsdale, James Rolston | Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.) |
| Greenwood, William (Stockport) | Lorden, John William | Simm, M. T. |
| Greer, Harry | Lyle, C. E. Leonard | Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South) |
| Gregory, Holman | Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachie) | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Greig, Colonel James William | McLaren, Hon. H. D. (Leicester) | Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander |
| Gretton, Colonel John | M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. | Stanley, Major H. G. (Preston) |
| Gritten, W. G. Howard | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) | Starkey, Captain John R. |
| Guest, Major O. (Leic., Loughboro') | Macquisten, F. A. | Stewart, Gershom |
| Guinness, Lieut.-Col. Hon. W. E. | Marriott, John Arthur Ransome | Strauss, Edward Anthony |
| Gwynne, Rupert S. | Martin, Captain A. E. | Sturrock, J. Lang |
| Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Mildmay, Colonel Rt. Hon. F. B. | Sugden, W. H. |
| Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Mitchell, William Lane | Sutherland, Sir William |
| Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l,W.D'by) | Molson, Major John Elsdale | Sykes, Sir Charles (Huddersfield) |
| Hambro, Captain Angus Valdemar | Montagu, Rt. Hon. E. S. | Talbot, G. A. (Hemel Hempstead) |
| Hanna, George Boyle | Moore, Major-General Sir Newton J. | Terrell, George, (Wilts, Chippenham) |
| Hanson, Sir Charles Augustin | Moreing, Captain Algernon H. | Terrell, Captain R. (Oxford, Henley) |
| Harris, Sir Henry Percy | Morrison, Hugh | Thomas-Stanford, Charles |
| Haslam, Lewis | Mosley, Oswald | Tickler, Thomas George |
| Henderson, Major V. L. (Tradeston) | Mount, William Arthur | Tryon, Major George Clement |
| Henry, Denis S. (Londonderry, S.) | Murchison, C. K. | Turton, E. R. |
| Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, Yeovil) | Murray, C. D. (Edinburgh) | Vickers, Douglas |
| Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Murray, Major William (Dumfries) | Waddington, R. |
| Hickman, Brig.-General Thomas E. | Neal, Arthur | Ward-Jackson, Major C. L. |
| Hinds, John | Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) | Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull) |
| Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Wheler, Lieut.-Colonel C. H. |
| Hohier, Gerald Fitzroy | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) | White, Lieut.-Col. G. D. (Southport) |
| Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard | Nield, Sir Herbert | Whitla, Sir William |
| Hood, Joseph | Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John | Wild, Sir Ernest Edward |
| Hope, Sir H. Stirling&Cl'ckm'nn'n,W.) | Palmer, Brigadier-General G. L. | Williams, Lt.-Com. C. (Tavistock) |
| Hope, James F. (Sheffield, Central) | Parker, James | Willoughby, Lieut.-Col. Hon. Claud |
| Hopkins, John W. W. | Pearce, Sir William | Wills, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Gilbert |
| Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) | Pease, Rt. Hon. Herbert Pike | Wilson, Capt. A. S. (Holderness) |
| Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster) | Peel, Col. Hon. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.) | Wilson, Daniel M. (Down, West) |
| Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Perkins, Walter Frank | Wilson, Colonel Leslie O. (Reading) |
| James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Perring, William George | Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir M. (Bethnal Gn.) |
| Jephcott, A. R. | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton | Wilson-Fox, Henry |
| Jesson, C. | Pratt, John William | Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon) |
| Jodrell, Neville Paul | Prescott, Major W. H. | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Jones, Sir Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. | Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde) |
| Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington) | Pulley, Charles Thornton | Wood, Major S. Hill. (High Peak) |
| Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Llanelly) | Randles, Sir John S. | Worsfold, Dr. T. Cato |
| Jones, William Kennedy (Hornsey) | Raper, A. Baldwin | Young, Sir Frederick W. (Swindon) |
| Joynson-Hicks, Sir William | Raw, Lieutenant-Colonel N. | Younger, Sir George |
| Kellaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel | |
| Kelley, Major Fred (Rotherham) | Reid, D. D. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Remnant, Sir James | Lord E. Talbot and Mr. Dudley Ward. |
| NOES. | ||
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Jones, Sir Evan (Pembroke) | Robertson, John |
| Blake, Sir Francis Douglas | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Rose, Frank H. |
| Bramsdon, Sir Thomas | Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M. | Royce, William Stapleton |
| Bromfield, William | Kenyon, Barnet | Sexton, James |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Kiley, James D. | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. | Lambert, Rt. Hon. George | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Lister, Sir R. Ashton | Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough) |
| Entwistle, Major C. F. | Lunn, William | Swan, J. E. |
| Finney, Samuel | Lyle-Samuel, Alexander | Thomas, Brig.-Gen. Sir O. (Anglesey) |
| Galbraith, Samuel | Macdonald, Rt. Hon. John Murray | Tootill, Robert |
| Glanville, Harold James | Maclean, Rt. Hn. Sir D. (Midlothian) | Wallace, J. |
| Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central) | Mallalieu, F. W. | Waterson, A. E. |
| Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Mills, John Edmund | Wedgwood, Colonel J. C. |
| Grundy, T. W. | Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) | White, Charles F. (Derby, Western) |
| Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) | Myers, Thomas | Wignall, James |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Newbould, Alfred Ernest | Williams, Aneurin (Durham, Consett) |
| Hallas, Eldred | O'Connor, Thomas P. | Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.) |
| Hayday, Arthur | O'Grady, Captain James | Young, Lieut.-Com. E. H. (Norwich) |
| Hayward, Major Evan | Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Hirst, G. H. | Rae, H. Norman | |
| Hodge, Rt. Hon. John | Raffan, Peter Wilson | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Holmes, J. Stanley | Rees, Capt. J. Tudor- (Barnstaple) | Mr. G. Thorne and Mr. Hogge. |
| Irving, Dan | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
Question put, and agreed to.
| Division No. 181.] | AYES. | [7.42 p.m. |
| Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) | Hayward, Major Evan | Rcse, Frank H. |
| Bigland, Alfred | Hirst, G. H. | Rutherford, Colonel Sir J. (Darwen) |
| Blair, Reginald | Hodge, Rt. Hon. John | Sexton, James |
| Bramsdon, Sir Thomas | Hogge, James Myles | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Bromfield, William | Holmes, J. Stanley | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Hood, Joseph | Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough) |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. | Irving, Dan | Swan, J. E. |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington) | Thomas, Brig.-Gen. Sir O. (Anglesey) |
| Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) | Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M. | Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West) |
| Entwistle, Major C. F. | Kenyon, Barnet | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Finney, Samuel | Kiley, James D. | Tootill, Robert |
| Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Lunn, William | Waterson, A. E. |
| Galbraith, Samuel | Mosley, Oswald | Wedgwood, Colonel J. C. |
| Ganzoni, Captain Francis John C. | Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) | White, Charles F. (Derby, Western) |
| Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central) | Myers, Thomas | Wignall, James |
| Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Newbould, Alfred Ernest | Wild, Sir Ernest Edward |
| Grundy, T. W. | Preston, W. R. | Williams, Aneurin (Durham, Consett) |
| Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) | Raffan, Peter Wilson | Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.) |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Remnant, Sir James | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Hallas, Eldred | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | |
| Hayday, Arthur | Robertson, John | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Mr. Lyle and Col. Burn. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. | Eyres-Monsell, Commander B. M. | Kellaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George |
| Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte | Farquharson, Major A. C. | Kelley, Major Fred (Rotherham) |
| Allen, Lieut.-Colonel William James | Fell, Sir Arthur | Knight, Major E. A. (Kidderminster) |
| Atkey, A. R. | Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L. | Knights, Capt. H. N. (C'berwell, N.) |
| Bagley, Captain E. Ashton | Flannery, Sir James Fortescue | Law, Alfred J. (Rochdale) |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Foreman, Henry | Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales) |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Fraser, Major Sir Keith | Lewis, T. A. (Glam., Pontypridd) |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Gardiner, James | Lister, Sir R. Ashton |
| Banner, Sir John S. Harmood- | Geddes, Rt. Hon. Sir E. (Camb'dge) | Lloyd-Greame, Major Sir P. |
| Barnes Rt. Hon. G. (Glas., Gorbals) | Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham | Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) |
| Barnston, Major Harry | Gilbert, James Daniel | Lorden, John William |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel John | Lyle-Samuel, Alexander |
| Benn, Capt. Sir I. H., Bart. (Gr'nw'h) | Glanville, Harold James | Macdonald, Rt. Hon. John Murray |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Goff, Sir R. Park | M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Gould, James C. | M'Micking, Major Gilbert |
| Bird, Sir A. (Wolverhampton, West) | Gray, Major Ernest (Accrington) | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) |
| Blake, Sir Francis Douglas | Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) | Mallalieu, F. W. |
| Blane, T. A. | Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) | Martin, Captain A. E. |
| Boles, Lieut.-Colonel D. F. | Greenwood, William (Stockport) | Mitchell, William Lane |
| Bowles, Colonel H. F. | Gregory, Holman | Morrison, Hugh |
| Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. | Greig, Colonel James William | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. |
| Breese, Major Charles E. | Gritten, W. G. Howard | Mount, William Arthur |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Guest, Major O. (Leic., Loughboro') | Murchison, C. K. |
| Briggs, Harold | Gwynne, Rupert S. | Murray, C. D. (Edinburgh) |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Neal, Arthur |
| Brown, Captain D. C. | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) |
| Bruton, Sir James | Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. Liv'p'l,W.D'by) | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Buchanan, Lieut.-Colonel A. L. H. | Hambro, Captain Angus Valdemar | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. | Hanson, Sir Charles Augustin | Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) | Parker, James |
| Butcher, Sir John George | Harris, Sir Henry Percy | Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry |
| Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. | Haslam, Lewis | Peel, Col. Hn. S. (Uxbridge. Mddx.) |
| Carter, R. A. D. (Man., Withington) | Henderson, Major V. L. (Tradeston) | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Casey, T. W. | Henry, Denis S. (Londonderry, S.) | Perring, William George |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord R. (Hitchin) | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, Yeovil) | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Pratt, John William |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Birm.,W.) | Hickman, Brig.-General Thomas E. | Preston, W. R. |
| Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender | Hinds, John | Prescott, Major W. H. |
| Clough, Robert | Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. | Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy | Pulley, Charles Thornton |
| Cohen, Major J. Brunel | Hope, Sir H. (Stirling & Cl'ckm'nn'n,W.) | Purchase, H. G. |
| Collins, Col. Sir G. P. (Greenock) | Hope, James F. (Sheffield, Central) | Rae, H. Norman |
| Colvin, Lieut.-Colonel Richard Beale | Hopkins, John W. W. | Randles, Sir John S. |
| Cooper, Sir Richard Ashmole | Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) | Raper, A. Baldwin |
| Coote, Colin Reith (Isle of Ely) | Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) | Remer, J. R. |
| Coote, William (Tyrone, South) | Hume-Williams, Sir W. Ellis | Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford) |
| Courthope, Major George L. | Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster) | Rutherford, Sir W. W. (Edge Hill) |
| Craig, Colonel Sir J. (Down, Mid) | Illingworth, Rt. Hon. A. H. | Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Norwood) |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Henry Page | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert A. |
| Davies, Sir William H. (Bristol, S.) | Jephcott, A. R. | Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) |
| Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) | Jesson, C. | Shaw, William T. (Forfar) |
| Dawes, Commander | Johnson, Sir Stanley | Simm, M. T. |
| Dennis, J. W. (Birmingham, Deritend) | Jones, Sir Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvll) | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Dockrell, Sir Maurice | Jones, Sir Evan (Pembroke) | Stanley, Major H. G. (Preston) |
| Doyle, N. Grattan | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Starkey, Captain John R. |
| Edgar, Clifford B. | Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Llanelly) | Strauss, Edward Antheny |
| Edwards, Major J. (Aberavon) | Jones, William Kennedy (Hornsey) | Sugden, W. H. |
| Elveden, Viscount | Joynson-Hicks, Sir William | Sutherland, Sir William |
| Taylor, J. | Waddington, R. | Wilson-Fox, Henry |
| Terrell, George, (Wilts, Chippenham) | Ward-Jackson, Major C. L. | Worsfold, Dr. T. Cato |
| Terrell, George (Wilts, Chippenham) | White, Lieut.-Col. G. D. (Southport) | Young, Lieut.-Com. E. H. (Norwich) |
| Thomas-Stanford, Charles | Williams, Lt.-Com. C. (Tavistock) | Young, Sir Frederick W. (Swindon) |
| Tickler, Thomas George | Wills, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Gilbert | Younger, Sir George |
| Tryon, Major George Clement | Wilson, Daniel M. (Down, West) | |
| Turton, E. R. | Wilson, Colonel Leslie O. (Reading) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Vickers, Douglas | Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir M. (Bethnal Gn.) | Lord E. Talbot and Mr. Dudley Ward. |
§
The following Amendment stood on the Paper in the name of Mr. KILEY: At the end of the Clause to add the words
Except that a similar reduction and allowance of duty shall apply in the case spirits used in the manufacture of perfumery, essences and fine chemicals, subject also to such Regulations as the Commissioner of Customs and Excise may prescribe.
The CHAIRMANIn regard to the Amendment of the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Kiley) the Clause which we are discussing now relates to spirits used in medicinal preparations or for scientific purposes. Does the hon. Gentleman contend that cosmetics are either medicinal or scientific?
§ Mr. KILEYI beg to move at the end of the Clause to add the words
Except that a similar reduction and allowance of duty shall apply in the case of spirits used in the manufacture of perfumery, essences and fine chemicals, subject also to such regulations as the Commissioner of Customs and Excise may prescribe.I will explain my case. This is the third time this afternoon I have intervened in order to obtain some concessions from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The object I have in view in this proposal is to enable the people who manufacture these commodities to carry on their business, and to make profits from which the Chancellor of the Exchequer will derive an advantage. If, as I am informed, the duty is levied in the way now proposed it will have the effect, to give one instance, of sending up a bottle of eau de cologne, which in pre-War days sold, say, at half-a-crown up to something like 8s. 6d. In consequence it will tremendously affect the demand and make it only obtainable by people who are very well-to-do.1120 Those who have had experience of the sick-room know the value of eau de cologne there, and its necessity. But the principal object I have in view is to ask the Chancellor to make such concession as will enable the businesses for which I at the moment speak to be carried on at something like their normal turnover. If the present proposals are allowed to go, it will bring down the output of such firms by a half or two-thirds.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI could not possibly accept this Amendment. What are the articles for which the hon. Member seeks exemption? Perfumery! But that clearly is a luxury. Essences? Which are used in the manufacture of beverages, and in flavouring confections. I really do not think these are cases at all comparable to those to which we were referring a little while ago, the use of spirits in the manufacture of drugs. I have not directed my consideration to anything in the nature of alternative proposals; none have been brought forward. I could not in regard to these articles hold out any expectation that I am unable to fulfil. As regards the general burden on the businesses, that is common to all businesses nowadays.
§ Captain W. BENNI do not agree with the Amendment of my hon. Friend. I do not see what claim these articles have over others to be considered as suggested, and I think the Chancellor has made out a complete case. But he has already given preferential treatment to certain trades—and that is the difficulty. I cannot, of course, go into this except by way of Illustration, but the man who makes motor cars and men of certain other trades are receiving preferential treatment—musical box makers, film manufacturers, and others. Once you start, representatives of one trade or the other immediately get up and put forward requests for similar treatment, and you cannot maintain any real equity in deciding between the one and the other. I am against both.
§ Mr. KILEYI desire to withdraw the Amendment. Perhaps I did not make my position quite clear, but I wanted to 1121 emphasise the fact of a bottle of eau de cologne rising from 2s. 6d. to 8s. 6d., and also the fact of the diminished output due to the present proposals, and the consequent less employment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.